The following message was delivered at Grace Community Church in Panorama 
City, California, By John MacArthur Jr.  It was transcribed from the tape,
GC 90-52, titled "Charismatic Chaos" Part 1.   A copy of the tape can be 
obtained by writing, Word of Grace, P.O. Box 4000, Panorama City, CA 91412.

I have made every effort to ensure that an accurate transcription of the 
original tape was made.  Please note that at times sentence structure may 
appear to vary from accepted English conventions.  This is due primarily to 
the techniques involved in preaching and the obvious choices I had to make in 
placing the correct punctuation in the article.

It is my intent and prayer that the Holy Spirit will use this transcription 
of the sermon, "Charismatic Chaos" Part 1, to strengthen and encourage the 
true Church of Jesus Christ.

Scriptures quoted in this message are from the New American Standard Bible.



                         Charismatic Chaos - Part 1
                                     by
                               John MacArthur


We are going to embark upon a study of the Charismatic movement, the 
contemporary Charismatic movement that surrounds us in the Evangelical 
Church.  Back in 1977, to be exact, I preached a series on the movement, or 
maybe a little even before that year.  But a book came from it which I spent 
1977 writing.  That book was entitled, "The Charismatics."  And now we are 
about a dozen or more years beyond that publication, and I felt that it is 
time for an update.  And from this series will come another book entitled, 
"Charismatic Chaos."  I believe that book will be released sometime after the 
first of next year.  

So many Christians are confused by the theology and the experiences of 
Charismatic people.  And they have become so visible because of Christian 
television, radio, books, magazines, and because their ministries are so 
aggressive that we all are inundated by them through direct mail.  Television 
and the media has spread this movement, it has created for them a tremendous 
platform.  In fact, it is probably not far from the truth to say that most 
people would assume that Evangelical Christianity is what the Charismatic 
movement represents, because it is such an exposed movement.  

But we must deal with it in line with 1 Thessalonians 5:21, and that is to 
examine it carefully, to determine what is true and what is not.  Now as we 
embark upon this examination, I want you to know at the very outset, that I 
love my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, and I have no intent to convey 
anything other than love for them.  I think in the movement there are many 
who are not genuinely saved, and I am equally concerned about their 
salvation.  My purpose is not to debate them, pitting our theology against 
theirs, but to call them to the test of Scripture, to drop what Amos called 
the "plumb line," to see if they are straight with the Word of God.  

I have to say at the very outset that a rather powerful intimidation factor 
works against those who wish to deal with this movement Biblically.  To 
critique Charismatic doctrine or practice is commonly viewed as inherently 
unloving, inherently unkind, inherently divisive, and even blasphemous.  I 
have personally been accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit by calling this 
movement to the test of Scripture.  Anybody who wants to answer the movement; 
to confront the movement; to measure it by Scripture; can be intimidated.  
Because it is very hard, then, to find a platform to speak about the 
movement.  It runs almost rampant like wildfire.  

Charismatic extremist can promote almost any idea they chose on television, 
or on radio, or in their books.  And those who attempt to examine those in 
the light of Scripture are muzzled.  I have been waiting for many years on 
one of these Charismatic Talk Shows to hear the host say, "That's not true; 
that is not true.  That is not in the Word of God, we will not accept that.  
You cannot verify that by Scripture."  That never happens, no matter what is 
said.  It can be the most bizarre thing imaginable; it can be the most 
whimsical, the most self-generated interpretation of Scripture or experience, 
and no one ever stops and says, "Hold it!  That's error; that's heresy; 
that's not true!"  

The number one book on the Christian Book Selling List right now, this month, 
the latest one, is a misrepresentation of the ministry of the Holy Spirit.  
It is number one because so many Christians across America are buying it.  It 
is not a time to speak against this movement unless you want some flak and so 
I am getting ready for it, I guess.  But I am duty bound to assess everything 
according to the Word of God.  

Our radio program, "Grace to You," is heard on a network of 200 stations, 
being broadcast about 600 different times a day, and there are satellites 
that take it to even more stations.  Nearly all of the stations that we are 
on and all of the broadcasting mediums that we use would share our doctrinal 
perspective; they would share our doctrinal commitment to the sufficiency of 
Scripture.  Yet, most of them "back out" at broadcasting any series on 
passages that confront Charismatic error.  Most of them would agree not only 
on the sufficiency of Scripture, but they would probably even agree on our 
theology with regard to the Holy Spirit, Signs, Wonders, Miracles, and 
Tongues, but they simply do not want to offend.  

Here is a typical letter, and I am quoting, written to us, 

    "Please reconsider your policy of dealing with the Charismatic 
    movement and other controversial topics on your radio broadcasts.  
    Though we share your convictions on these issues, many of our 
    listeners do not.  These people are dear brothers and sisters in 
    Christ and we do not feel that it is helpful to the cause of 
    Christ to attack what they believe.  We are committed to keeping 
    peace among brethren and unity in the Body of Christ.  Thank you 
    for being sensitive to these concerns."  

"It is not helpful to the cause of Christ to attack error anymore," that's 
what it says.  "It is not helpful to these dear brothers and sisters in 
Christ to attack what they believe, even though it is wrong."  It is more 
helpful, under this philosophy, "to let them remain in error."  "We are 
committed to keeping peace, even if peace means error, and finding unity even 
if unity means heresy.  Thank you for being sensitive to our desire to 
maintain heresy if it must be maintained for the sake of unity!"

Apparently, these people, while being "Dear Brothers and Sisters," are not 
dear enough to deserve to be taught the truth.  Does real Christian love 
leave them in a spiritually debilitating error, thus out of God's will and 
out of the place of blessing, misrepresenting God's sacred truth?  Is that 
love that calls us to do that?  But this is the kind of thinking that 
pervades the Church.  In effect, it has given Charismatic extremists the 
freedom to propound fantastic views while imposing a code of silence on all 
who object.  

The legacy of such an attitude is not unity, and the legacy of such an 
attitude is not peace, believe me; it is confusion, it is turmoil, and it is 
chaos.  How so?  Churches, Mission Agencies, Schools, and other Christian 
organizations that have tried to maintain unity by not confronting 
Charismatic influence, and thus allowing it to come in never to be dealt 
with, ultimately will all have to sacrifice their Non-Charismatic position or 
split the organization.  It does not bring unity, it brings the exact 
opposite.  Because, inevitably, you have the "haves," the Charismatics who 
feel that they have reached a higher level, and the "have nots."  And you 
have pitted two theologies against each other.  One gives in or it splits.

It is not unkind to analyze Christians' doctrinal difference in the light of 
Scripture.  That is not unkind; that is kind.  We have a mandate from God to 
do this, even if it involves rebuking certain people by name because they are 
so well known.  The Apostle Paul writing in Philippians 4 says, "I urge 
Euodia and I urge Syntyche to live in harmony in the Lord."  And then he 
says, "True comrade, help those women."  He identifies two cantankerous, 
troublemaking, disagreeable women in the congregation who were to be publicly 
rebuked for all times, for their names have occupied a place in the permanent 
record.  

In 1 Timothy 1:20, Paul identifies Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom he had 
delivered over to Satan, that they may be taught not to blaspheme.  In 2 
Timothy 2:17, he identified Hymenaeus and Philetus, who gone astray from the 
truth and made up some kind of Spiritual resurrection, upsetting the faith of 
some.  In 3 John, that little epistle, he identifies another man, by the name 
of Diotrephes, "who loves to be first among them, and does not accept what we 
say."  

When it comes down to the integrity of the Church, and when it comes down to 
what is right and what is true, the Scripture will even name people publicly 
and for the record, to be eternally embedded in the pages of Scripture, who 
stand in the way of the movement of truth.  Real love and real unity, and 
real peace, are bound up with truth.  Love apart from truth is hypocritical 
sentimentality.  And that kind of thing is frankly at an epidemic level.  A 
kind of sentimentality that does not want to confront truth.  But remembering 
again the words of Ephesians 4:15, "we are to speak the truth in love."  That 
is how the body "grows up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even 
Christ."  

Criticizing the Charismatic movement by Scriptural comparison should be 
welcomed since truth that pleases God is the only concern that is valid.  
Now, my purpose is not to mock; my purpose is simply to correct.  In my first 
book I was accused of using bizarre examples; that was not true.  But some 
accused me of using bizarre examples of the Charismatic movement.  As I have 
accumulated data over the past number of years since that first book, and in 
going through that data more recently, I find that what we have now is even 
more bizarre, and yet still commonplace.  More visible now, more common now 
with no end in sight.  

When I was driving through the city of Dallas on Friday, I noticed a number 
of huge billboards on all sides of the city as I was trekking back and forth 
in meetings.  And they were advertising the name of a man, Robert Tilton.  
Robert Tilton preaches every Sunday in Dallas, and he will mail you a miracle 
coin which by the way, is actually worthless; but it is a miracle coin.  He 
has mailed them to hundreds of thousands of people promising them a financial 
miracle if they will send him, quote, "A check for the best possible gift you 
can give."  And then there is a reminder in this mailing, quote, "Only you 
and God know what your best gift is."  A little intimidation there, and if 
you will send for him the best gift you can give, you will get a miracle coin 
that guarantees you a miracle.  A Secular paper calls Tilton's Television 
program, quote, "The fastest growing empire in religious television."  The 
things that he promises and says are absolutely bizarre, and yet the bizarre 
has become the commonplace.

An associate of mine attended a Charismatic Businessmen's meeting in Chicago, 
where a Catholic Priest testified that Mary, the mother of Jesus, had given 
him the gift of tongues while he was saying his rosary.  Then the Charismatic 
pastor, leading the meeting, rose and said, and I quote, "What an amazing 
testimony that is.  Aren't you glad that God isn't bound by any ideas by 
what's doctrinally acceptable?  Some people would try to dismiss this 
brother's testimony just because it doesn't jibe with their doctrinal system, 
but how you get filled with the Holy Ghost doesn't matter, as long as you 
know that you have got the Baptism.  Even if you got it from Mary while 
saying your rosary, it has to be legitimate."  The audience, by the way, 
numbering in the hundreds, broke into wild affirmation and applause.  

It is too easy to say that any critique of this movement is unfair and 
unkind.  It is too easy to say that and silence the Non-Charismatic, and 
leave people in confusion, and let the movement spread unchecked even more 
and more and more and then become exempt from Biblical criticism.  Beloved, I 
want to tell you that it is all over the globe.  All over the globe.  
Everywhere I go in the world I find that they have been making massive 
inroads.  

I was talking to a man in our church this morning who had for a number of 
years worshiped here and then had returned to his native Scotland, living 
just out of Edinburgh.  And I said, "Have you found a church?"  And he said, 
"Well, yes we have."  And I said, "Is it one of the Scottish Baptist Churches 
(knowing that most of the Scottish Presbyterian Churches are long gone 
liberal, with of course some exceptions)?  He said, "No, it is not a Baptist 
Church.  For the most part, most of the Baptist Churches have moved into the 
Charismatic Movement.  Scotland.

It is a major problem in Eastern Europe and will continue to be one.  It is a 
problem in Australia.  It is a problem is Asia.  It is a problem of massive 
proportions in Latin America.  It is everywhere, confusing millions of 
people.  The Russian Church now is waiting patiently for the finishing of 
this book, and they want the manuscript even before the American Publisher 
publishes it because they desperately need it translated into the Russian 
Language and distributed immediately in the Soviet Union because of the 
rampant confusion about these matters.

Fantastic encounters with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are claimed as 
commonplace; personal messages from God are routine; healings of all kinds 
are claimed; miracles occur, everything from puppies being raised from the 
dead; wash machines being healed; empty gas tanks and teeth are filled not 
with the same thing); people are slain in the Holy Spirit; people go to 
Heaven and go to Hell--comeback.  There are some today who even say that the 
Church can't do effective evangelism without such phenomena, without such 
signs and wonders and miracles.  The gospel, they say, is weak without signs 
and wonders and this is the emphasis, by the way, of what they call the Third 
Wave.   

Charismatics say, "If you are not in the movement, then you have no right to 
evaluate the movement."  Howard Ervin (sp.), a Baptist pastor wrote some 
years ago, quote, 

    "The attempt to interpret the Charismatics manifestations of the 
    Holy Spirit, without a Charismatic experience is as fatuous as the 
    application of the Christian ethic apart from a regenerate 
    dynamic.  Understanding of spiritual truth is predicated upon 
    spiritual experience.  The Holy Spirit does not reveal spiritual 
    secrets to the uncommitted."

There is the ploy they use, "Well, we would expect you to be against it since 
you haven't had the experience."  That is Gnosticism.  That is believing that 
you have been elevated to a higher level of comprehension which the 
uninitiated have no understanding.  Rodman Williams, who has written a number 
of books and who was once the president of a local Charismatic school, and I 
quote said, "Any vital information concerning the Gifts of the Spirit, the 
Pneumatic Charismata, predisposes a participation in them.  Without such a 
participation, whatever is said about the Gifts may only result in confusion 
and error."  If you haven't had it, you have no right to talk about it.  One 
pastor said to me, "You talk exactly like one who never had the experience.  
You are speaking out of ignorance."  I wonder if they feel that way talking 
about Heaven, Hell, murder, adultery, homosexuality, and numerous other 
subjects.  Do we have to have that experience too?

My experience and your experience is not the test or proof of Biblical truth, 
it is the reverse--Biblical truth must validate or invalidate any experience.  
Doctrinally, it is almost impossible to define the Charismatic movement.  It 
almost resists theology.  It resists categorization because it has such a 
wide and growing spectrum of viewpoints.  If they don't rightly divide the 
Word of God they are not going to come to a proper Systematic Theology.  If 
they determine what is true because of their own experiences then there is no 
limit to the theology; it will take whatever form experience takes.  And so 
what you have is a very amorphous kind of volatile changing systems of 
beliefs that ebbs and flows and rises and falls and refuses to find any 
structure.  

The Charismatic movement is achieving, by the way, what the liberal 
Ecumenical movement tried for years to achieve, and that is a unity that is 
indifferent to doctrinal truth.  And so I say there is intimidation as we 
approach this study because we are not supposed to have the right to do this, 
since we haven't had the experience.  We are not suppose to do it because it 
isn't loving and it isn't gracious and it doesn't make for unity.  And so, I 
just want you to know that I acknowledge the effort to intimidate, and I 
reject that.  I do not believe, furthermore, that I have to have some kind of 
experiences in order to understand what the Bible says about them.  I haven't 
walked on water, but I can understand what it says when it says that Jesus 
did.

Doctrinally, we must have structure, we must have sound doctrine.  We cannot 
fall prey to a system that resists any doctrinal categorization.  But see, 
once you allow experience to be the test of truth, then you can't limit 
doctrine to the pages of Scripture.  

Now, just a brief history.  Historically, the Charismatic movement is the 
child of the Pentecostal movement.  That began about 1900 and it went along 
for about 60 years and the Pentecostal Churches were primarily the Assemblies 
of God, the Four Square Church, and then there were some other smaller 
groups, the United Pentecostal group and so forth.  But they were basically 
off to themselves.  People used to call them the "Holy Rollers."  They were a 
kind of a unique group that did not mainstream at all in Evangelical 
Christianity because of their strange beliefs.  

In 1960 a remarkable thing happened.  In 1960, not far from here, in Saint 
Mark's Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, California, Rector Dennis Bennett 
supposedly got the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.  And what happened was 
Pentecostalism jumped out of its own box and landed in Episcopalianism, and 
for the first time it transcended its denominational definitions.  Since that 
time it has moved through the major denominations like a flood.  It went 
beyond historical Pentecostal denominations and has continued to do that.  
That second movement is called the Charismatic Movement.  They borrowed that 
concept of Charismatic because it is associated with the Gifts of the Holy 
Spirit given to the believer.  

But the Charismatic Movement can't be defined doctrinally.  Why?  Because it 
involves Pentecostals, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, 
Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, anybody and everybody.  So it resists, and 
has resisted any kind of doctrinal definition that is too rigid.  What they 
all hold in common is an experience which they will call the Baptism of the 
Holy Spirit.  And they wrongly define the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a 
post salvation experience that adds something to your Christian life that you 
previously didn't have, and is usually is accompanied by signs and wonders, 
most particularly speaking in tongues.  And we are going to talk much more 
about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Tongues at a later time.  But once 
you have had that experience, you have sort of jumped into this new level of 
spiritual awareness, and you have reached the level of the Charismatic.

Without this experience, a Christian is second class.  So, you have the 
"spiritual haves" and the "spiritual have nots."  I remember being sent a 
tape of a "talk radio program" by Walter Martin, when he was still alive, and 
he was interviewing Rodman Williams at the time; and for some reason they got 
to talking about me because I had written a book on the Charismatics (and 
both of them were certainly favorable to the Charismatic movement) and they 
were discussing what I had said in the book and how that I really didn't 
understand the movement.  And Rodman Williams, on the tape said, "Well I'll 
tell you one thing, I don't know who this man is but God will never bless his 
life or his ministry."  And there was a moment of silence, to which Walter 
Martin simply replied, because he knew me and he knew the ministry, "I think 
you have gone too far in saying that!"

But the bottom line is, that's what they have to say because if you haven't 
reached that second level, then you are not participating in the fullness of 
the Spirit of God.  That's very intimidating to some Christians.  No miracles 
in your life, no spectacular revelations, Jesus never comes and talks to you, 
no signs, no wonders: What's wrong with you?  

I am convinced that these experiences are real in the sense that maybe they 
have some emotional reaction or maybe there is something that they are 
feeling at the time, but that they do not follow a Biblical pattern, they are 
not authored by God, and they do not lift someone to a higher level.  Now 
what that means then, is that since they are not really true in terms of 
moving people into genuine spirituality, since they do not increase your 
understanding of the Word or your true knowledge of God they lead then to the 
need to exaggerate, dramatize, or even invent experiences just to keep up 
with everybody's expectations and just to be spiritual.  

One nationally known television Charismatic Evangelist was recently 
discovered using a hidden receiver in his ear, you remember that, a man named 
Poppoff (sp.) through which his wife was broadcasting information supposedly 
being revealed to him by the Holy Spirit as he stood in front of the 
audience.  Another healer was using the same "phony plants" in the crowd, in 
every city, and rehealing the same bunch from city to city to city.  Terrible 
sex scandals abound in the ostentatiously spirit filled Charismatic leaders 
circles.  Sexual scandals seem epidemic and catastrophic.  Admittedly, that 
can happen in any group but you would think it would happen less, not more, 
in those that have reached the higher level of spirituality, wouldn't you?  

Such scandals reveal the fact that pursuing signs and pursuing wonders, 
chasing spectacular experiences and speaking in tongues and reaching some 
plane of esoteric mystical feelings has led some leaders not only to be 
fraudulent, to be fake, but to miss the path to true spirituality, and 
consequently to be on the path to moral disaster.  You see, false standards 
of spirituality don't restrain the flesh.  Fundamental teachings of the 
Charismatic movement create an emphasis on the external and they foster bogus 
claims and false prophets and other forms of what I guess we could call 
spiritual humbug.  

Now, some of these people are sincere, but in the pursuit of experiences and 
emotions, and miracles, and signs and wonders, they begin to imagine all 
kinds of things and to falsify all kinds of things.  And I also believe that 
Satan invades with his deceptions.  Well, that just gives you a little 
feeling of what we are going to be dealing with.  I want to ask one question 
tonight and briefly answer it, that will take us into the flow of this 
subject.  

The first and foremost thing for us to consider is this question, "Is 
experience a valid test of truth?"  I know you know the answer to that, but I 
want to help frame it up so you can understand it fully.  Is experience a 
valid test of truth?  

A woman wrote to me seething with anger; this is what she said in her letter,

    "You resort to Greek translations and fancy words to explain away 
    what the Holy Spirit is doing in the Church today.  Let me give 
    you a piece of advice that might just save you from the wrath of 
    the Almighty God.  Put away your Bible and your books and stop 
    studying.  Ask the Holy Ghost to come upon you and give you the 
    gift of tongues.  You have no right to question something you've 
    never experienced."

Such an attitude prevails in the movement, the tendency to gauge truth by 
personal experience.  Now what about experience is there such a thing as a 
true spiritual experience?  Sure.  A true spiritual experience will be the 
result, listen carefully, will be the result of the quickening of truth in 
the Christian's mind.  And I will sum it up that way and I don't know of any 
better way to say it.  A true spiritual experience will be the result of the 
quickening of truth in the Christian's mind.  In other words, the Spirit all 
of a sudden gives dramatic life to a truth.  It does not occur in a mystical 
vacuum.  

In an authentic spiritual experience there are emotions and feelings and 
senses, and I want you to know that I believe that and I understand that.  I 
have some absolutely exhilarating spiritual experiences.  And I have some 
very difficult experiences, very sad and heart wrenching experiences.  And I 
am not talking about an emotional experience or an earthly experience, some 
kind of worldly thing.  I am talking about a spiritual experience.  I have 
them and I hope you have them.  God has given us our emotions so that we can 
respond to His truth.  But I do not have an experience that is godly, that 
leads me to truth in a vacuum.  I have an experience in response to truth.  

Let me show you what I mean.  Here is one kind of spiritual experience: 
strong feelings of remorse over sin.  Have you had that experience?  You go 
along in life on a fairly even keel, you go along fairly happy and content 
and satisfied and you've got the ability to balance your sorrow with your 
joy, and sort of keep your head above water.  But there are times in your 
life when you have felt strong remorse over your sin.  That is an experience 
that was generated by the truth of the Word of God quickened to your heart by 
the Holy Spirit.  Right?  That was the case in Luke 18:13 where the man who 
was a publican, was in the corner of the Temple beating on his breast crying, 
"God, be merciful to me, the sinner!"  Why?  Having been exposed to the truth 
about his sin, his spirit was quickened and he had an experience of 
conviction.  He had an experience of remorse.  He had a tearful experience of 
repentance.

Another kind of spiritual experience you might have would be an almost 
inexplicable sense of trust in God in the midst of a traumatic situation.  An 
almost inexplicable sense of trust in God, peace, calm, in the midst of a 
traumatic situation.  I remember taking off in an airplane from LAX and when 
we were barely off the ground, maybe 100 feet, an engine blew up.  Now that 
is what I call a traumatic situation.  We had to go in a circle, dump fuel 
over the ocean and come back and land again, and then get out and get another 
plane.  But in the process, it was amazing the reality of the moment, the 
whole plane is shaking and everybody has heard the noise, everybody knows 
something dramatic has occurred, and to all of a sudden be literally 
overwhelmed.  The first question that came into my mind was, "Lord, are you 
sure that this is the right plane?  This is me, I am on this one, you know?  
That's my first response, and then I said, "No, no, the Lord knows, He's got 
an OAG guide, He knows the airline schedule.

In the middle of that kind of trauma, I was overcome with a mighty sense of 
trust in the sovereignty of God, and a perfect peace that came over me; and I 
began to anticipate the realities of Heaven.  Maybe, maybe that is a common 
experience at some point in time, in the life of any faithful true believer.  
In Acts 16, it was that kind of experience that the Apostle Paul had with 
Silas.  They were put in stocks, that means their limbs were stretched to the 
limit, and locked in at a stretched point.  There legs were pulled as far 
apart as they could go, like a wishbone and then stuck in the stocks and 
locked there, so that the muscle pain would be indescribable, unimaginable.  
Their arms the same way, and there they were locked awaiting their execution, 
and it says they were praying and singing hymns of praise to God.  That's a 
spiritual experience where the Spirit of God has quickened to their hearts 
the great reality that their God is near, their God loves them, God is in 
control of everything, and that confidence gives them a song to sing in the 
night.  That's an experience.

Maybe, maybe there are times when you have had an overpowering peace in the 
midst of trouble, that made your spirit totally calm like that.  Certainly 
Paul had it.  He said, "I have learned that in whatsoever state I am to be 
content."  And he said, "If you just learn to go to the Lord with everything, 
He will give you perfect peace.  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by 
prayer and supplication let your requests be made known to God.  And the 
peace of God," right?  "Will grant to you His peace."

Even in the face of death there is an overwhelming joy and peace that can 
come over us.  Stephen is there under the bloody stones as they crush out his 
life, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.  Don't blame them for this."  
Quietly he reposes in rests.  And then there is that other kind of spiritual 
experience, that Paul had in Romans 9:1-3, where he said, "I have such a deep 
and profound longing and sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart for the 
salvation of Israel, that I could almost wished myself accursed, if it could 
mean their redemption."  Have you had that experience?  Have you ever wept 
over the lost?  

I remember one time as a little boy, the first time it ever hit me.  I was 
sitting in a campfire and I became overwhelmed after hearing a message about 
lost people.  I think I was about 12, and I couldn't control the tears, and I 
just began to weep over the lostness of people.  That was a spiritual 
experience, as the Spirit of God quickened to my heart something true from 
His Word--the lostness of man, the sovereignty of God in the midst of my 
trouble, the great peace that He gives, confidence in His care, repentance 
and remorse over my sin, all of those kinds of things.  

On the other hand, Have you ever rejoiced to the point where you could almost 
not contain your joy because somebody you loved so much had come to Christ?  
That's a spiritual experience.  Have you ever just contemplated the glory of 
God, and found yourself singing hymns to him in praise because you were so 
exhilarated?  Have you ever gone into a ministry and knowing that the Spirit 
of God was on you and you were going to go and preach His truth, and felt 
that you couldn't wait to get there, and when you got there you thought you 
might tear the pulpit to pieces because of the joy, the exhilaration of what 
you are about to do?  

I don't want anybody to think for a moment that I don't have a spiritual 
experience.  People sometimes think I'm sort of cold and calculating, but I 
am very emotional about those things.  Spiritual experience by definition is 
an internal feeling.  It is an internal feeling that involves strong emotion 
in response to God's truth, amplified by the Spirit and applied to me 
personally.  That's a true spiritual experience.  

Now what is a false spiritual experience?  That's the experience that 
supposedly leads me to the truth.  This must be true because look what I 
experienced.  That's backwards!  The Charismatic movement errors because it 
tends to build its teaching on experiences, as John Wimber (sp.) said, "We 
are cataloging all of our experiences so we can develop a theology."  They do 
not understand that authentic experience happens in response to truth and 
anything that doesn't square up with the revealed truth of the Word of God is 
not authentic, not of God.  Too many of their experiences are detached from 
truth and they lead to false conclusions.  

I spent a couple of hours with a prominent, well known, Charismatic pastor 
last Sunday afternoon.  I asked him a number of questions, and every time I 
asked him a question he answered me with an experience.  Visions, dreams, 
prophecies, words of knowledge, private messages from God, are the real 
authority in that movement.  And Scripture, when used at all, is typically 
employed for proof texts or twisted to fit some novel opinion.  And many 
Scriptures, beloved, are literally mauled.  

Kenneth Copeland was teaching on Mark 10, The Rich Young Ruler, and of course 
Kenneth Copeland teaches that Jesus wants everybody rich.  Jesus wants 
everybody healthy, wealthy, prosperous--big house, big car, big wardrobe, big 
bank account.  It's hard to teach that from the Rich Young Ruler because 
Jesus said to him, "Sell all you have, give to the poor, come and follow Me."  
It doesn't fit too well in that text.  So how's he going to handle it?  Well, 
he twisted the text to make it seem to say that God wants His people wealthy.  
Jesus' words in verse 21 are very clear, Mark 10, "One thing you lack: go and 
sell all possess, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in 
heaven; and come, follow Me."  "Turn in your worldly treasure for heavenly 
treasure."  Here's Copeland's comment and I quote, "This is the biggest 
financial deal that young man had ever been offered, but he walked away from 
it because he didn't know God's system of finance."  What?  What he is trying 
to imply there is that if he had given away everything God would have made 
him richer.  It doesn't say that.  

The claims these people make just go on and on.  I don't know if you read 
about Percy Colette (sp.) a Charismatic Medical Missionary, claims that in 
1982 he was transported to Heaven for five and a half days.  A newsletter 
describes the story,

    While Christianity abounds with accounts of glimpses of the other 
    dimension from those who have had out of body experiences, Dr. 
    Colette's is unlike these.  Obviously, he was caught up in the 
    third heaven even as Paul was, the difference being, Paul was not 
    allowed to utter the things he saw and heard, while Dr. Colette 
    was.  Colette offers video tapes detailing his sojourn in Heaven 
    and his accounts are peculiar indeed.  Quote, "Everything God 
    created on the earth is in Heaven, Horses, cats, dogs.  Everything 
    that He created on earth is in Heaven, in the way of animals, only 
    these are perfect.  For example, the dogs don't bark."  

    Further, he says, "You don't need plumbing.  You can go to the 
    Banqueting House and eat all you want and no plumbing is needed."  
    Colette then describes the "Pity Department."  The "Pity 
    Department" is place the souls of aborted babies go and also some 
    severely retarded babies and it here that these little souls are 
    trained for a period of time before they go before the Throne of 
    God.  

    Then he claims he saw the "Record Room," an immense area where all 
    to idle words spoken by Christians are being retained until after 
    Christians give an account of them or are judged, at which time 
    these will be emptied into the "Sea of Forgetfulness."'  Colette 
    then describes the "Garment Room," where angels are sewing our 
    robes, and Mansions under construction.  And he found the "Holy 
    Ghost Elevator" and many other astonishing sights.  

    He adds one more detail, "While I was traveling back to earth, I 
    saw two girls, one brunette and one a redhead.  We stopped to talk 
    to them, that is their 'soul bodies' on the way back.  We had 
    asked them what had happen to them?  And they indicated that they 
    had gotten killed in a car accident on the California Highway and 
    their physical bodies were in a funeral home.  They said their 
    mother was weeping over them, so would I please tell her they were 
    ok?"  Dr. Colette feels that he has conclusive proof to verify 
    that tale.  "About a year later I went to that area where the 
    mother lived and was giving this testimony, a mother jumped up in 
    the congregation and said that's a description of my daughters!  I 
    told her she shouldn't fret, that her daughters are in that 
    wonderful place, we saw them on the way to Heaven."  She said, 
    "She would never cry again." 

    After Dr. Colette lectured on Heaven to his third straight 
    standing room audience in Montgomery, Alabama, he offered to take 
    questions from the floor.  The first question was something I 
    admit I had never contemplated.  The question was, "I'm a Cowboy, 
    will there be Rodeos in Heaven?"  Dr. Colette was ready with an 
    answer, "There are horses in Heaven, beautiful horses, they are 
    all praising God, there is no foolishness in Heaven.  I am not 
    saying that a Rodeo is foolish, but there is no Will Rodgers style 
    acting up there."

Just the silliness of these kinds of things that find their way into print.  
By the way excursions to Heaven and back have become almost chic in that 
movement, the ultimate experience for those who want something unusual, and 
many say that they have made the trip.  On April 11, 1977, a Charismatic 
television network in Los Angeles, carried an interview with Dr. Richard Ebee 
(sp.) who claimed to have died gone to Heaven and come back again.  According 
to Dr. Ebee he fell off a balcony, struck his head and was supposedly dead.  
He reported,

    "He experienced Paradise.  His formerly weak eyes needed no 
    glasses, now he could see for a hundred miles.  His body took a 
    wonderful quality, he could move anywhere at will, he was visible 
    yet transparent.  Dr. Ebee said he found some flowers, broke them 
    off and noticed they had no water in their stems because Jesus is 
    the Living Water.  The aroma of Heaven was especially overwhelming 
    with the sweet savor of sacrifices, Ebee said.  He discussed the 
    fact that the human brain has twelve cranial nerves and then added 
    that those twelve nerves represent the twelve tribes of Israel.  
    Furthermore, he said that the number one nerve in God's cranium is 
    the sense of smell.  Ebee said he learned that the whole purpose 
    of sacrifice was to send a sweet aroma up to Heaven to satisfy 
    God's main cranial nerve."

In regard, by the way, in regard to that kind of silliness, in regard to the 
twelve cranial nerves representing the twelve tribes of Israel, it would be 
just about as reasonable to say, "That because you have ten toes, the bottom 
half of your body has the image of the Beast mentioned in Daniel, chapter 2 
and chapter 7."  By the way, I checked with a medical doctor on the twelve 
cranial nerves, and found that actually there are twelve pairs, which makes 
twenty four, so perhaps it would be better to say that they correspond to the 
twenty four elders.  

And I know that it is hard to resist chuckling at these things because they 
are so foolish.  The reason we chuckle is because we know that it is so far 
fetched, so strange.  But you see, Charismatics have no way to judge and they 
have no way to stop those kinds of things.  They can't stop that because the 
system validates experience, and the truth rises from the experience.  And so 
they spend their time trying to get the Bible to fit their experience.  

Dudley Danielson, in the "National Courier," a Charismatic newspaper, ran an 
ad.  This is the ad, 

    "A Genuine Photograph of the Lord!  Yes, I believe I have one 
    recorded on film.  In mid-summer I awoke at 3:30 am to a strong 
    voice thought impression, 'Go and photograph my sunrise.'  Beside 
    the river I set up my camera; waited for the sun, and that predawn 
    I felt so very close to God, perfect peace.  On one negative is 
    the perfect shape of a figure, arms raised in blessing, as 
    reflected in the water, exactly opposite every other shadow.  I 
    believe God gave me an image of Himself to share."  

The item is signed Dudley Danielson, Photographer, and you can get a picture 
of God for only $9.95.  Doesn't seem to bother Dudley that the Bible says, 
"No man has seen God at any time."  Nor does it appear to matter to him that 
the Bible says that, "God is spirit," and "No man can see me and live."  It's 
no different than people who think they see Jesus on a Pizza Billboard.  Such 
extreme examples are not uncommon.  In the November 1990 issue of Charisma 
Magazine, which is the most popular magazine in the movement, there is a 
claim made by a lady named Aline Baxley (sp.), an ex-alcoholic and drug 
addict, who says she has been to Hell and God brought her back to tell her 
story.

Experience after experience is reported in the Charismatic press, television, 
radio.  A subtle but sinister pattern is developing.  Instead of responding 
to a proper interpretation of God's Holy Word, Christianity is collecting 
preposterous tales producing a pseudo-Christian mysticism that's more like 
Hinduism and the New Age, than it is Biblical Christianity.  And that's why I 
quoted the woman who wrote me and said, "Put away your Bible, your books and 
stop studying."  Feelings are more important than the eternal Word of God.  
Intuition surpasses interpretation.  This is a tragic thing.

Now in a quick conclusion.  When we turn to the Scripture, does the Scripture 
validate experience as the proper source for truth?  Look at 2 Peter, and 
I'll just give you a couple of Scriptures because we have covered these.  In 
2 Peter 1:16, Peter says, "We did not follow cunningly devised tales when we 
made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were 
eyewitnesses of His majesty.  For when He received honor and glory from God 
the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, 
'This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased.'--and we ourselves heard 
this utterance made from Heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain."  
Stop at that point.

Peter says, "Look, I going to write in this Second Epistle about the Second 
Coming of Christ.  I am going to write about His coming glory, His coming 
majesty, and I want you to know that I am not talking about something that I 
don't know about, because this is not some tale that God passed down.  I was 
an eyewitness along with the other Apostles of His Second Coming Power and 
Glory."  When did you see it?  "On the mountain."  What mountain? " The 
Mount of" what?  "Transfiguration."  

Matthew 17, Jesus took the disciples into a mountain and He was transfigured 
before them, and they saw the Shekinah Glory of God.  We saw it!  We were 
there!  And the voice out of heaven, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am 
well-pleased."  That is an amazing experience, an amazing experience.  Peter 
said, "I had an experience, I saw the glorified Christ in His Second Coming 
Majesty.  I saw the Shekinah Glory shining through Him, I heard the voice of 
God saying, 'This is My beloved Son with whom I am well pleased.'"  You 
could make a career today just going around telling that experience.  But look 
what he says, verse 19, "But we have a more sure word of prophecy."  We have 
the even surer prophetic word, is the proper translation.

What is more sure than experience?  The Word!  Peter's point is precisely the 
issue that many Charismatics fail to understand.  The pilgrimage from 
experience to experience, more and more spectacular is not only frustrating, 
it is counter productive spiritually.  Peter says, "I had an experience, a 
real one.  But I have a more sure word than my own senses.  I can't even 
trust my own senses in a real experience of seeing the glory of Christ.  And 
so he says, "We have a more sure word and you do well to pay attention to 
that as a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning 
star arises in your hearts."  Until Christ comes in His day, you better stick 
with the Word because, verse 20 says, "It didn't come by any private 
interpretation.  It isn't somebody's experience.  It isn't somebody's 
emotion.  It isn't what somebody feels.  "No, no prophecy was ever made by an 
act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

If you want human experience articulated, you can have it.  Peter says, I'll 
take the more sure word, the Word of God, not of human origin, not of human 
interpretation, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  I'll take 
God's Word over your word or even mine.  Peter was no Charismatic, no 
Charismatic.

Psalm 19, another Scripture that must be dealt with.  In Psalm 19:7-9, the 
Psalmist writes, "The law of the lord is perfect, restoring the soul; the 
testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.  The precepts of the 
Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, 
enlightening the eyes.  The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the 
judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether."  You have six 
titles for Scripture; it is called the "Law of the Lord;" the "Testimony of 
the Lord;" the "Precepts of the Lord;" the "Commandment of the Lord;" the 
"Fear of the Lord;" and the "Judgments of the Lord."  Two of those in each of 
those three verses.  Psalm 19:7-9.

Now, you'll notice this, he is talking then about the Scripture.  He sees it 
as law.  It is God's Law for man's conduct.  He sees it as testimony.  It's 
God's personal testimony to who He is.  He sees it as precepts, principles 
for life.  He sees it as commandment; it is binding.  He sees it as fear; 
that is instruction on worship.  He sees it as judgment, or verdicts from the 
divine bench on the destiny of man.  Scripture is all of that, but notice 
what the Scripture is in terms of its character.  It is perfect, sure, right, 
pure, clean, true.  You can trust it.  All six of those characteristics.  It 
is perfect, sure, right, pure, clean, true.  And it will restore the soul, 
make wise the simple, rejoice the heart, enlighten the eyes, endure forever, 
and produce comprehensive righteousness.  

That's why Jesus said, "If they don't believe the Word of God that came 
through the prophets, they won't believe even though someone," what?  "Is 
raised from the dead."  He was and they didn't believe.  Miracles don't make 
people believe.  Signs and wonders don't make people believe, they never did.  
If a man does not believe the Word, he is not going to believe some 
experience.  

Look at John, chapter 14, and see what Jesus said about whether experience is 
the issue.  John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the 
life; no man comes to the Father, but through Me.  If you had known Me, you 
would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.  
Philip said to Him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.'"  Do 
a miracle!  Show us God!  Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, 
and you haven't come to know Me Philip?  He who has seen Me has seen the 
Father."  What are you saying, "Show us the Father for?"  In other words, I 
have told you all you need to know.  You don't need a sign and a wonder.  You 
don't need some mystical and ecstatic vision of God.  I've told you all you 
need to know!  I've demonstrated it in my life and my teaching.  

Paul was no Charismatic either, believe me.  Paul was no Charismatic.  He 
made divine truth the beginning and the ending of his ministry.  It was the 
preaching of the truth revealed to him by the Spirit of God.  Acts 17:2, 
"According to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned 
with them from the Scriptures, explaining and giving evidence that the Christ 
had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, 'This Jesus whom I am 
proclaiming to you is the Christ.'"  He was explaining the Scripture, he was 
delineating the Scripture.  He had an experience.  He went to Heaven!  But 
God said, "You are not allowed to," what?  "You're not allowed to talk about 
it!"  "I don't want anybody basing anything on your interpretation, on your 
experience."  Paul never built his ministry on his visions, his experiences.  
He built it on what he knew was the revealed truth of God, and he called into 
question any experience that violated Scripture.

The end of his ministry in the 28th chapter of Acts, we find him at his 
lodging, and people were there in large numbers; and he was explaining to 
them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God, and trying to persuade 
them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from 
morning until evening.  He was in the Scripture trying to prove the truth 
from the pages of the Word of God.  

Charismatics, like Jews of Paul's day have zeal without knowledge.  
Enthusiasm without enlightenment.  They are often approaching truth without 
their minds, without thinking.  Some even claim that God deliberately gives 
people unintelligible tongues in order to bypass and thus humble the proud 
human intellect.  Beloved this is a serious and tragic error.  Clark Pinock 
(sp.) once said, "We cannot allow these people to draw their theology out of 
their experience.  Whenever the existential cart is put before the historical 
horse theology becomes a synthesis of human superstition and putting LSD into 
the communion is fair play."

Anything to induce an experience.  Christianity is in serious danger, 
victimized by the experiential spirit of the day, the legacy of mysticism.  
It must be tested by the Word of God.  We are going to do our best to do 
that.  At least you know from the start that experience is not the valid test 
for truth--the Word is.  And your experience flows out of the ministry of the 
Spirit through the Word to your life.  

Let's pray.  Father, we thank you for letting us cover these things tonight 
and there is so much that could have been said.  We thank you Lord that we 
can take a stand where your Word does in love.  We ask you to help us to do 
that faithfully as we go through these things, remembering that not all we 
say is true of all the folks in the Charismatic movement, but these are the 
general trends.  We thank you for those in that movement who are doing their 
best to adhere to the truth, to search your Scriptures, and we pray that you 
will lead them to a full understanding of your truth.  Help us to be loving 
even as we pass these things on and yet to confront error so we might be 
faithful to you.  In Christ's Name.  Amen.

Transcribed by:

Tony Capoccia
BIBLE BULLETIN BOARD
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