Mark 2:18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: And John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting--ASV; Now John's disciples and those of the Pharisees were keeping a fast--Wey; and they come and say unto him,; and the people came and said to him--RSV; ...and asked him--Gspd; they approached him with another question--Rieu; Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast,; Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast--ASV; Why is it that John's disciples...are fasting--NEB; Why is it that when John's disciples...are keeping the fast--Gspd; but thy disciples fast not?; but your disciples do not fast--RSV; yours are not keeping it--Gspd; And the disciples of John and the Pharisees were fasting; and they come and say unto him-- //For what cause\\ do /the disciples of John and the disciples of the Pharisees\ fast, whereas /thy disciples\ //fast not\\? And the disciples of John and those of the Pharisees were fasting, and they come and say to him, 'Wherefore do the disciples of John and those of the Pharisees fast, and thy disciples do not fast?' Kai Asan hoi mathAtai 'Iwannou kai hoi Pharisaioi nAsteuontes, kai erchontai kai legousin autw, Dia ti hoi mathAtai 'Iwannou kai hoi mthaAtai twn Pharisaiwn nAsteuousin hoi de soi mathAtai ou nAsteuousin; Kai (continuative conjunction). Asan (3d.per.pl.imp.ind.of eimi, imperfect periphrastic). hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with mathAtai). mathAtai (nom.pl.masc.of mathAtAs, subject of Asan). 'Iwannou (gen.sing.masc.of 'IwanAs, possession). kai (adjunctive conjunction, joining nouns). hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with Pharisaioi). Pharisaioi (nom.pl.masc.of Pharisaios, subject of Asan). nAsteuontes (pres.act.part.nom.pl.masc.of nAsteuw, imperfect periphrastic). kai (continuative conjunction). erchontai (3d.per.pl.pres.ind.of erchomai, historical). kai (adjunctive conjunction, joining verbs). legousin (3d.per.pl.pres.act.ind.of legw, historical. Dia (preposition with the accusative, cause). ti (acc.sing.neut.of tis, cause. hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with mathAtai). mathAtai (nom.pl.masc.of mathAtAs, subject of nAsteuousin). 'Iwannou (gen.sing.masc.of 'IwanAs, possession). kai (adjunctive conjunction, joining nouns). hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with mathAtai). mathAtai (nom.pl.masc.of Pharisaios, possession). twn (gen.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with Pharisaiwn). Pharisaiwn (gen.pl.masc.of Pharisaios, possession). nAsteuousin (3d.per.pl.pres.act.ind.of nAsteuw, customary). hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with mathAtai). de (adversative conjunction). soi (dat.sing.masc.of su, possession). mathAtai (nom.pl.masc.of mathAtAs, subject of nAsteuousin). ou (negative conjunction, with the indicative). nAsteuousin (3d.per.pl.pres.act.ind.of nAsteuw, customary). Translation: "And the disciples of John and the Pharisees practiced fasting; so they came and said to Him, 'Why do the disciples of John and the disciples of the Pharisees have a practice of fasting, but your disciples do not customarily fast?" COMMENT: Cf.Mt.9:14; Lk.5:33. The imperfect periphrastic Asan...nAsteuontes indicates that the disciples of John the Baptist, as well as the Pharisees had always in the past had the policy of fasting. It was their custom - a part of their religious observance. They had been in the habit of fasting. This was definitely out of line with Jesus' policy and with His behavior as a guest in Matthew's home. They approached (historical present in erchontai) therefore and demanded an explanation for His feasting. Dia ti - "on account of what?" Hence, "Why?" (Cf.#118 and 281 for other examples of dia ti. Note the dative in soi rather than the genitive sou as in Mt.9:14. Luke adds that they referred also to the prayer life of John's disciples. Prayer and fasting on the part of some seemed out of harmony with the behavior of Jesus and His disciples as they sat at Matthew's table and enjoyed the delicious food and drink, in company with publicans and sinners. The question gives rise to three short parables as Jesus seeks to make the point clear. When a bridegroom is present his attendants rejoice. When he departs, they are sad. it is the presence and/or absence of the Bridegroom that changes our lifestyle. This philosophy is new cloth and new wine and cannot be associated with old garments and old bottles. T292 - In this verse the undefined plural may be impersonal or it may refer to the subject of the preceding sentence. [Ed. The subject of erchontai and legousin is apparently provided as the subject of the previous sentence, hoi mathAtai 'Iwannou kai hoi Pharisaioi.] BW33 - Dative of Possession. The word in the dative indicates personal interest in terms of ownership. It indicates the person to whom something belongs and therefore it might more accurately be called the dative of the possessor. The possessive pronouns "his" or "her" will ordinarily be used in the translation. This category employs the substantive without a preposition. DM104 - eis. Root meanings: within, in;... Remote meanings ... (7) Because of. Rom.4:20; here... Cham70 - Action in Present Time. 1. The exegete should remember that the present tense normally expresses continued action going on at the time of writing, or speaking. There are, however, several phases to this meaning. The context should make clear the exact shade of meaning...... (c). It may express iterative or customary action, called the 'iterative present': nAsteuw dis tou sabbatou (Lk.18:12). This does not mean that I am fasting now, but that it is my custom to fast twice a week. Cf. here, where Asan...nAsteuontes tells us that John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting at that time. Cham75 - Action in Past Time. ... 1. The imperfect expresses continuous action in past time. In historical narrative, the imperfect is the proper tense to use for descriptive purposes. "The aorist tells the simple story. The imperfect draws the picuture. It helps you to see the course of the act. It passes before the eye the flowing streams of history". ... e. The periphrastic imperfect is very common in the NT. It stresses the durative idea in the participle: Asan...nAsteuontes (here). This tells us that the disciples of John and of the Pharisees were actually fasting at that time. The same verb occurs twice in this verse in the present tense: nAsteusousin...nAsteusousin. These two examples tell us that it was the custom (the present of customary action) for the disciples of John and of the Pharisees to fast, but not for Jesus' disciples. Here is a good place to note the difference in force between the periphrastic and the simple verbal construction. Ear118 - Used to Fast. The Greek clearly says "were fasting" (Asan...nAsteuontes). it was a regular Jewish fast day, which the Pharisees and the disciples of John the Baptist were observing. But Jesus' disciples were eating. This is what caused the controversy (v.18). MARKitGNTwuest55,6 - "And." The function of this conjunction here is that of a connection that is purely topical. It was another case where the Messiah was brought into conflict with the religious elements of the day. "The disciples of John and of the Pharisees." The latter two words are in the nominative case in the best texts. The correct reading is "The disciples of John and the Pharisees." "Used to fast." We have the periphrastic imperfect, emphasizing the durative aspect of this tense. The idea Mark wishes to bring is that they were observing a fast at that very time. Robertson says that probably Levi's feast happened on one of the weekly fast days. The disciples of John sided with the Pharisees in the Jewish ceremonial and ritualistic observances. John was in prison at that time. John's disciples had not read their leader right when they sided with the Pharisees. He had called the Pharisees a brood of vipers. Here his disciples join with the Pharisees in criticizing Jesus. Translation: "And John's disciples and the Pharisees were observing a fast. And they come and say to Him, Because of what are John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fasting, and your disciples are not fasting? NTC-MARKhendriksen98,9,100 - "Now John's disciples and the Pharisee were fasting." Mark's story lacks any specific reference to time or chronological order. This is true both for the beginning and the close of his account. As to Matthew, it is not at all certain that the word "then" links this story with the immediately preceding, as if the two events--Matthew's banquet and the enquiry concerning fasting--followed each other in immediate succession [79]. Luke's conjunction "And" (5:33) is no more definite than Matthew's "then." There is, however, one clear chronological note. It is found in Mt.9:18: "While he was still saying these things, look, a ruler came...." The probability is that while Matthew's call and banquet took place before the choosing of the Twelve and the delivery of the Sermon on the Mount (see Mk.3:13-19; Lk.6:12-49), the question about fasting--followed shortly by the double miracle recorded in Mk.5:25-43--occurred afterward, that is, after that choosing, etc. The law of God suggests only one fast in an entire year, namely, on the day of atonement (Lev.16:29-34; 23:26- 32; Num.29:7-11; cf. Acts 27:9). In course of time, however, fasts (not always total; see the text in each instance) began to multiply, so that we read about their occurrence at other times also: from sunrise to sunset (Judg.20:26; I Sam.14:24; II Sam.1:12; 3:35); for seven days (I Sam.31:13); three weeks (Dan.10:3); forty days (Ex.34:2,28; Deut.9:9,18; I Kings 19:8); in the fith and seventh month (Zech.7:3-5); and even in the fourth, fifth, seventh, and tenth month (Zech.8:19). The climax was the observance of a fast "twice a week," [On Mondays and Thursdays, according to Didache VIII.1.] the boast of the Pharisee (Lk.18:12). It is not surprising therefore that for some reason or toher the Pharisees were once again keeping a fast. Their manner of fasting--looking glum, making their faces unsightly in order that everybody might see that they were fasting--was roundly condemned by Jesus (Mt.6:16). But why were the disciples of John also fasting? Various reasons have been suggested. John had probably made his first public appearance in the summer of the year A.D. 26. About the close of the year 27 he had been imprisoned. Jesus may have preached the Sermon on the Mount sometime during the spring to mid-summer of the year 28. Not long afterward--perhaps near the beginning of the year 29--John was put to death. It is therefore not impossible that the fasting of John's disciples was essentially a mourning for their master, whether for his imprisonment or for his death. It is not nrecessary to believe that the Pharisees and John's disciples were fasting for the same reason. But the opposite possibility--that both groups were indeed fasting for the same reason--must also be granted. It must be borne in mind that John was in a sense an ascetic (Mt.11:18; Lk.7:33). He emphasized sin and the necessity of turning away from it. It is not inconceivable, therefore, that he may have encouraged fasting as an expression of mourning for sin, the very reason which the Pharisees probably also gave for much of their fasting (cf.Mt.6:16). "And they came and said to him [Jesus], Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?" As to "And they came," the question is, "To what group does the pronoun 'they' (implied in the Greek verb) refer?" Lk.5:33 is as indefinite as is Mk.2:18. In either case "And some people" might be subsituted for "And they." If a definite antecedent is indicated, then in Mk.2:18 it would be "the scribes who were Pharisees" (literally "the scribes of the Pharisees") of vs.16; and in Lk.5:33, "the Pharisees and their scribes" of vs.30. However, it is very questionable whether in either case we are dealing with a contextual antecedent. On the other hand, Mt.9:14 clearly states that the questioners were "the disciples of John." Since not only they but also the Pharisees were fasting at this time, it is conceivable that the group of enquirers also included Pharisees. With respect to those of whom it is predicated that they were fasting, the reference to "John's disciples" presents no further important difficulty. Even after John's imprisonment his disciples continued as a separate group, one that distinguished itself from the followers of Jesus. There was, however, a relation of friendship and co- operation between the two groups, as is clear from such passages as Mt.11:2,3; 14:12, and probably even from the passage now under study, Mk.2:18. A difficulty arises, however, in connection with the phrase "the disciples of the Pharisees" (see also Lk.5:33). Considered as a group "Pharisees" were not technically teachers, hence had no disciples. However, the difficulty may be more apparent than real. Mark, in writing "disciples of the Pharisees," may well have had in mind disciples of "the scribes who were Pharisees," as in 2:16. The main point is that John's disciples and presumably the disciples of the Pharisaic scribes were fasting, in harmony with the teaching and/or example of their leaders. Mt.9:14 states that the Pharisees fasted "often." On the other hand, Christ's disciples did not join in observing these fasts. This striking contrast gave rise to the question. In favor of these enquirers it must be said that they did not bypass Jesus but approached him directly and frankly. Also, their question, though perhaps not entirely free from a tinge of criticism, was probably rather an hones request for information than a veiled but bitter accusation. In reality, however, there was no justification for this question. Had these men been better students of Scripture they would have known (a). that, as has been indicated, the only fast that could by any stretch of the imagination be derived from the law of God was the one on the day of atonement, and (b). that according to the teaching of Isa.58:6,7 and Zech.7:1-10 it was not a literal fast but love, both vertical and horizontal, which God demanded. TNICotNTlane107,8 - Having exhibited Jesus' relationship to sin and sinners, Mark turns to the issues of fasting and observance of the Sabbath. In these next narratives it is evident that opposition to Jesus has become heightened and outspoken (2:18,24). It reaches a point of culmination in the decision to seek his death (3:6). The issue of fasting may have been important to the community within which Mark wrote since he brings together three statements of the Lord which have a bearing upon it. The introduction lacks detail, but is sufficient to indicate to a non-Palestinian community the historical circumstances in which the question of fasting arose during Jesus' ministry. The reference to "the disciples of the Pharisees" is not technical since the Pharisees as such did not have disciples (although individual scribes among them did). The designation indicates that larger group of people who were influenced by Pharisaic ideals and practice. This may be the proper nuance of "the disciples of John" as well. They had submitted to the baptism of repentance and continued to pattern their lives in accordance with John's prophetic word. Ist is probable that John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting for quite different reasons, and that it is the fast observed by the disciples of John which particularly interested Mark, who mentions this group first. The OT specified only one day when fasting was mandatory upon all Israel. This was the Day of Atonement, designated as a day for cleansing from sin and affliction of the soul (Ex.20:10; Lev.16:1-34; 23:26-32; 35:9; Num.29:9-11). In this context fasting is an act of repentance in preparation for expiation. By the close of the prophetic period other occasions of fasting had become traditional, and these observances continued into the first century. At his time it was customary for the Pharisees to fast voluntarily on Monday and Thursday of each week. While the origins of this practice are obscure, it appears to have been an expression of piety and self-consecration. It is probably to this voluntary fast that reference is made in the statement "the Pharisees were fasting." In the OT fasting may be an expression of mourning, and it has been suggested that John's disciples were fasting because of the death of their master. While this is possible the proposal lacks support from any detail in the text. It seems better to understand their fast as an expression of repentance designed specifically to hasten the coming of the time of redemption. This understanding gives point to Jesus' use of the wedding image (which implies a contrast between John's pre-messianic travail and Jesus' messianic feast), and appears to be assumed in the two brief parables appended to this initial metaphor. The demand to know why Jesus' disciples do not fast is critical in intention; the unidentified questioners wish to expose the disciples of Jesus to their disadvantage. In all probability many of them had been disciples of John who were expected to maintain the disciple encouraged by their master. MARKj&d74 - COMMENT Time--(Sames as the call of Levi--Early Summer A.D. 28.) Place--Many feel this conversation took place around the table in Matthew's house. Parallel Accounts--Mt.9:14-17; Lk.5:33-39. Outline--1. The question of John's disciples, v.18. 2. The answer of the bridegroom, vs.19,20. 3. The answer of the garment, v.21. 4. The answer of the wine skins, v.22. ANALYSIS I. The Question Of John's Disciples. vs.18. 1. Asked during a fast by John's disciples and the Pharisees. 2. Why do John's disciples fast and the disciples of Christ fail to fast? II. The Answer Of The Bridegroom, 19, 20. 1. The joy of the bridal party prevents fasting. 2. When the bridegroom is gone there will be fasting. III. The Answer of The Garment, 21. 1. New cloth cannot patch old clothes. 2. The results prevent such action. IV. The Answer Of The Wine Skins, 22. 1. New wine cannot go in old skins. 2. Results prevent such action. EXPLANATORY NOTES I. The Question of John Disciples, 18. Perhaps they chose the very time of the feast for a fast. This would indeed produce a contrast and conflict. We believe John's disciples were sincere in their questions and offered no criticism. We could not say the same of the disciples of the Pharisees. The law of God prescribed only one fast--the great Day of atonement--(Lev.23:27). During the captivity of the Jewish nation fasting was practiced by many. Fasting undoubtedly was associated with the repentance John preached. MARKmcgarvey275,6 - "used to fast." - Literally, were fasting. They were at that time keeping a fast. Such is the force of the Greek verb, hAsan nAsteuontes. Alford objects to this rendering, which was first insisted on by the German Commentator, Yeyer, but the passages which he cites in support of his objection do not sustain it, and he admits that this may be the meaning. Mark certainly uses this combination of the verb and participle to express what was at the time being done, and not what was customary, in x. 32 and xiv. 4, as the reader of the Greek can see for himself. It was the circumstance that the Pharisees and the disciples of John were observing a fast at the very time that Jesus and his disciples were feasting in the house of Levi, which gave rise to the question, or which at least gave especial emphasis to it. Fasting was regarded as a mark of peculiar sanctity (Lk.18:12), and therefore it seemed unaccountable to the Jews that Jesus, with his lofty pretensions, should be feasting at a time when other holy men were fasting. It is worthy of note that Matthew represents this question about fasting as having been raised by the disciples of John (Mt.9:14); Luke puts it into the mouths of the scribes and Pharisees (Lk.5:30-33); while Mark says that the Pharisees and the disciples of John united in putting the question. Thus it appears from the statement of Mark that Matthew and Luke, though apparently in conflict, are both correct. The disciples of John did put the question, as represented by Matthew, and the scribes and Pharisees did so, as represented by Luke. Each tells the truth, but each tells only a part of what was true, and we get at the whole truth by putting both of their statements together as one. This circumstance furnishes a key to the reconciliation of the different writers in many other places where there is an appearance of discrepancy, and we have used it freely. We should always, in such cases, suppose both statements to be true, and regard each as a part of the whole truth. TCGTC-MARKcranfield108 - ...And, if what follows suggests that John's disciples were fasting in mourning for their master, there is no reason why we must take the text to imply that the Pharisees were observing the same fast. That the Pharisees fasted frequently we know (Lk.18:12); but these fasts were not enjoined by the Law... erchontai. Indefinite plural: 'people come.' The con- nection with the last section is not close enough for it to be legitimate to make the scribes of v.16 the subject of the verb. If John's disciples were fasting for mourning, we may compare Judith 8:6 for this association between fasting and mourning. (But it is not absolutely necessary to suppose that it was such a fast; it is likely that they also fasted during John's life.) Mark 2:19 And Jesus said unto them,; Jesus replied to them--Ber; Jesus asked them--Beck; Can the children of the bridechamber fast,; Can the sons of...--ASV; Can the wedding guests fast--RSV; Can the bridegroom's friends fast--Beck; while the bridegroom is with them?; ...is beside them--Mof; ...is in their company--Ber; as long as they have the bridegroom with them,; ...beside them--Mof; they cannot fast.; there can be no fasting--NEB; fasting is impossible--Wey; Fasting is out of the question--Phi; And Jesus said unto them-- Is it possible for the sons of the bridechamber /while the bridegroom is with' them\ to be fasting? it is impossible /to fast\. And Jesus said to them, 'Are the sons of the bride-chamber able, while the bridegroom is with them, to fast? so long time as they have the bridegroom with them they are not able to fast; TRNTyeager645 - kai eipen autois ho IAsous, MA dunantai hoi huioi tou numphwnos en hw ho numphios met' autwn estin nAsteuein; hoson chronon echousin ton numphion met' autwn ou dunantai nAsteuein. kai (inferential conjunction). eipen (3d.per.sing.aor.act.ind.of eipon, constative). autois (dat.pl.masc.of autos, indirect object of eipen). ho (nom.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with 'IAsous). 'IAsous (nom.sing.masc.of 'IAsous, subject of eipen). MA (negative conjunction with the indicative in rhetorical question). dunantai (3d.per.pl.pres.ind.of dunamai, rhetorical question). hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with huioi). huioi (nom.pl.masc.of huios, subject of dunantai). tou (gen.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with numphwnos). numphwnos (gen.sing.masc.of numphwn, description). en (preposition with the locative of time in a relative clause). hw (loc.sing.neut.of hos, time point, relative clause). ho (nom.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with numphios). numphios (nom.sing.masc.of numphios, subject of estin). met' (preposition with the genitive of fellowship). autwn (gen.pl.masc.of autos, fellowship). estin (3d.per.sing.pres.ind.of eimi, aoristic). nAsteuein (pres.act.inf.of nAsteuw, complementary). hoson (acc.sing.masc.of hosos, in agreement with chronon). chronon (acc.sing.masc.of chronos, time extent). echousin (3d.per.pl.pres.act.ind.of echw, aoristic). ton (acc.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with numphion). numphion (acc.sing.masc.of numphios, direct object of echousin). met' (preposition with the genitive of fellowship). autwn (gen.pl.masc.of autos, fellowship). ou (negative conjunction with the indicative). dunantai (3d.per.pl.pres.ind.of dunamai, aoristic). nAsteuein (pres.act.inf.of nAsteuw, complementary). Translation: "Therefore Jesus said to them, 'The sons of the bridegroom are not able to fast when the bridegroom is with them, are they? during the time when they have the bridegroom with them they are not able to fast.'" COMMENT: Jesus puts the proposition twice: at first in the form of a rhetorical question (MA with the indicative mode in dunantai), which expects a negative answer. And then as a positive statement (ou with the indicative). Note the two relative temporal clauses - the first with en and the locative of time point in hw; and the other with hoson and the accusative of extent of time. When do not the sons of the bridegroom fast? When He is with them. Across what span of time (accusative of time extent) do they not fast? While He is with them. Note the infinitives which complement their respective verbs. How can a friend of the bridegroom be sad enough to fast while the bridegroom is present? This is the question. Who is the Bridegroom? This is the point of the parable. This was the issue that separated Matthew, recently born again, from the Scribes and Pharisees who were objecting to Jesus' participation in the dinner. And it is the issue that always separates the regenerate from the unregenerate. If Jesus of Nazareth is not the incarnate Son of God, then there is no logical reason for anyone to be happy. The fasters are correct if Jesus is not God, for if He is not, then God has never visited the sin cursed human race and there is no hope for any. Only sick fools will speak of happiness. But since the Christian presupposition is that Jesus is God incarnate and that He came to save us from our sins, we are delighted in His presence and sit down joyfully to eat with Him. In vs.20 Jesus predicted that He had come for only a temporary visit during which time He was destined to perform the ministry of redemption. M174 - The adjectival genitive can be seen in hoi huioi tou numphwnos, meaning "the bridal party" (semitic). DM282 - The Constructions in Temporal Clauses. ... (4) With a Relative Phrase. A relative pronoun with a preposition may express a temporal idea. "While the bridegroom is with them." (here) Cham29,30 - Genitive. The genitive case, hA gennAtikA ptwsis (Lat., casus genitivus), is primarily the 'describing' case. Its function is adjectival. In fact, comparative grammar shows that this usage is older than the adjective. The name is misleading, for it means 'generative,' 'productive.' A better name has been suggested, ha genikA ptwsis, i.e., the case which gives the genus or kind. Regardless of the name, it is the descriptive case. A thing may be described from many viewpoints, so the genitive case will have a variety of meanings: ... (f). There is also a 'Hebraistic genitive' which is primarily a genitive of definition. This construction is found in Sophocles, and also in papyri where no Hebrew influence can be found. But it is very common in the LXX and the NT. This is due, no doubt in large part, to translation of the Hebrew idiom, the construct state of the noun. Cf. Mk.2:26, hoi artoi tAs prothesews, 'the loaves of the setting forth,' 'the shew bread'; Lk.4:22, hoi logoi tAs charistos, 'the words of grace.' See also the many expressions using huios or teknon with a genitive as substitute for an adjective: (here)... Ear118 - Children of the Bridechamber. The Greek has "sons of the bridal chamber" (numphwn). A&G say that the whole expression means "the bridegroom's attendants, that group of the wedding guests who stood closest to the groom and played an essential part in the wedding ceremony". MARKitGNTwuest56 - "Children of the bridechamber." The word is huios, not teknon, properly "sons." These were not the groomsmen, the friends of the bridegroom, but the guests invited to the wedding. This scene is laid in Galilee, where the custom of having groomsmen was not observed as in Judaea. Our Lord takes John's own metaphor (Jn.3:29), substituting the sons of the bridechamber for the friend of the bridegroom, which latter designation John used of himself in his relation to the Messiah he proclaimed. Mourning does not befit a marriage scene. The three parables of the bridegroom, unfulled cloth, and new wineskins, illustrating and defending the conduct of Jesus in attending the feast at Levi's home on a Jewish fast day, are all given by the three evangelists, Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Robertson says that Jesus seems iconoclastic to the religious leaders of His day, and revolutionary in His emphasis on the spiritual instead of the ritualistic and ceremonial. The question of Jesus is preceded by one of the Greek particles of negation. The negative ou when used with a question, expects an affirmative answer, the negative mA, a negative reply. Mark uses the latter, indicating that Jesus expected a negative answer in the minds of His hearers to His rhetorical question. Translation: "And Jesus said to them, The sons of the bridechamber are not able to be fasting while the bridegroom is with them, are they? As long as they are having the bridegroom with them, they are not able to be fasting." NTC-MARKhendriksen100,1,2 - "Jesus said to them, While the bridegroom is with them, is it possible for the bridegroom's attendants to be fasting?" In all three synoptics the question is so phrased that the answer must be "No." Mark, however, makes that answer explicit by reporting that Jesus continued: "So long as they have the bridegroom with them they cannot fast." Jesus here compares his blessed presence on earth with a wedding-feast. Again and again Scripture compares the relationship between Jehovah and his people, or between Christ and his church, with the bond of love between bridegroom and bride (Isa.50:1ff.; 54:1ff; 62:5; Jer.2:32; Hos.2:1ff.; Mt.25:1ff; Jn.3:29; II Cor.11:2; Eph.5:32; Rev.19:7; 21:9). Vs.19 speaks about "the sons of the bridal chamber" (thus literally), meaning "the bridegroom's attendants. These were friends of the groom. They stood close to him. They had been invited to the wedding, were in charge of arrangements, and were expected to do everything possible to promote the success of the festivities. Bridegroom's attendants fasting while the feast is in progress! How absurd, says Jesus as it were. Disciples of the Lord mourning while their Master is performing works of mercy and while words of life and beauty are dropping from his lips, how utterly incongruous! TNICotNTlane109,10 - Jesus, in typical debate fashion, poses a counter-question designed to center attention on the new situation created by his presence with the disciples. He replies: "Can the bridal guests mourn during the bridal celebrations?" The statement may be proverbial for any inappropriate action, since a wedding was a time of great joy and festivity, heralded by music and gala processions. To fast in the presence of the groom would be unthinkable. Although the image of the wedding feast was sometimes used by the rabbis to express the joy of the messianic era, neither in the OT nor in later Jewish literature was the Messiah represented as the bridegroom. It is important to stress this fact, for it indicates that Jesus' statement would not have been recognized by his disciples or his adversaries as an explicitly messianic assertion. Jesus speaks of himself in an implicit, veiled manner because he has not yet spoken openly and in detail to his disciples about his distinctive mission (8:32). The messianic significance of this use of the bridal image was understood only later. The central comparison between the wedding festivities and Jesus' disciples lies in the joy which they possess in their master. Jesus emphasizes this with his answer to the critical question. The reason for the fundamentally different position of his disciples is that "the bridegroom is with them," and in his presence they experience joy. Even on this veiled level of parabolic speech something significant is said: an expression of sorrow is inappropriate to the new situation which has come with Jesus' presence. MARKj&d74 - What a beautiful way to describe the attitude of our Lord for His work! Jesus was as happy as a bridegroom--His disciples shared His joy. How could they be sad or fast when they had just made the greatest discovery in time and eternity? It was time to rejoice, they had found the Messiah! TCGTC-MARKcranfield108,9,10 - Jesus replies with a parable. It consists of a question (expecting the answer, 'No'--so mA), to which he provides the answer himself. hoi huioi tou numphwnos, 'wedding-guests' (cf. Hebrew bene hahuppah). ... According to one view...the point of v.19a is simply that to expect the disciples to fast now that the new age has come is as unreasonable as to expect wedding-guests to fast during a wedding. It is a simple parable, to which any allegorical identification of the bridegroom with Jesus is alien, but it has been turned into an allegory by the addition of v.19b-20. But it is doubtful whether this inter- pretation exactly fits v.19a; for en hw ('so long as', 'while') seems rather to anticipate the end of the wedding- celebration than to concentrate attention on the fact that it has begun. And is even v.19a by itself free from allegory? The words en hw ho numphios met' autwn estin are odd in connection with an ordinary wedding, for they seem to imply that the celebrations are ended by the bridegroom's departure, whereas actually it was the guests who left the bridegroom; but they are appropriate, if the presence of allegory is admitted. It seems a more likely explanation that Jesus was adapting (hence the oddness of expression) what was perhaps a current proverb to indicate the inappropriate (fasting at a wedding!) in order to suggest the contrast between the circumstances of John's disciples and his own. It was appropriate for John's disciples to fast, for their master had been taken from them (whether or not that was actually the motive of their fast); for his own disciples it was inappropriate, for he was still with them. If there is then an element of allegory in v.19a, we may ask further whether in using this particular image in connection with himself he saw in it any special significance beyond the general one of his importance for his disciples. It is very often assumed that he was using it with a messianic significance. If so, it seems rather that he was giving it such a significance by using it with reference to himself than that he used it because it already had any such significance; for neither in the O.T. nor in Judaism was the Bridegroom a figure of the Messiah. The OT evidence suggests a more august significance (e.g. Hos. passim, Isa.50:1; 54:5; 62:4f., Jer.2:2,32f.; 3:1,14, 31:32; Ezek.16:8); and it is possible that his use of the figure reflects his consciousness of being the Son of God, though no such significance would be suggested to his hearers. Mark 2:20 But the days will come,; But there will come days--ABUV; But the time will come--NEB; when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them,; ...is taken away...--RSV; and then shall they fast in those days.; ...will they fast in that day--ASV; and on that day they will fast--NEB; and when that day comes...--Gspd; that will be the time for them to fast--Phi; But there will /come\ days and /then\ they will fast /in that' day\. but days shall come when the bridegroom may be taken from them, and then they shall fast--in those days. TRNTyeager646,7 - eleusontai de hAmerai hotan aparthA ap' autwn ho wumphios, kai tote nAsteusousin en ekeinA tA hAmera. eleusontai (3d.per.pl.fut.act.ind.of erchomai, predictive). de (adversative conjunction). hAmerai (nom.pl.fem.of hAmera, subject of eleusontai). hotan (indefinite temporal adverb with the subjunctive). aparthA (3d.per.sing.aor.pass.subj.of apairw, indefinite temporal clause). ap' (preposition with the ablative of separation). autwn (abl.pl.masc.of autos, separation). ho (nom.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with numphios). numphios (nom.sing.masc.of numphios, subject of aparthA). kai (continuative conjunction). tote (temporal adverb). nAsteusousin (3d.per.pl.fut.act.ind.of nAsteuw, predictive). en (preposition with the locative of time point). ekeinA (loc.sing.fem.of ekeinos, in agreement with hAmera). tA (loc.sing.fem.of the article in agreement with hAmera). hAmera (loc.sing.fem.of hAmera, time point). Translation: "But there shall come a time when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then they shall fast on that day." COMMENT: de is adversative as Jesus distinguishes between the time when He was (then) present with His disciples and the future time when He will be absent for a season. Now the Bridegroom is with the children of the bridechamber, but that situation is going to change. The days are coming when (hotan and the indefinite temporal clause) the Bridegroom will be crucified, after which He will be raised from the dead and will ascend into heaven. Note that Jesus did not tell them definitely when these future events would occur. This is the force of the indefinite temporal clause. C.#799 - "lifted up from them" This was fulfilled in Acts 1:11. The departure of the Bridegroom will initiate the period of fasting for the Christian. The parable points up the fact that Jesus' disciples sustained a far different relationship with him than did the disciples of John or of the Pharisees. In His presence the one group was merry and feasting while His enemies went about fasting. When He is gone, His friends will fast and His enemies will feast. Cf.Mt.9:15; Lk.5:35 for further comment. That this is a new and startling different philosophy is clear from the analogy of vs.21 and 22. B316 - The relative clause with hotan is conditional in form, but definite in force, "but days will come when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them" (cf. BD382[3]). BW153 - Clauses Introduced by Adverbial Particles. Some adverbial particles introduce clauses which modify nouns. Particles such as hote and hotan often introduce clauses which modify nouns that denote time. Particles like hopou, pou, hou, and hothen sometimes introduce clauses which modify nouns that denote place. The occurrence of such clauses is rare in the subject. Note that the adverbial particles which introduce the clauses function to modify the verbs within the clauses. "Days will come when the bridegroom is taken from them." MARKitGNTwuest56,7 - "The days will come." The word "days" does not have the article in the Greek text. Stress is laid upon quality. That is, "days of such a nature will come." The order in the Greek text is, "There shall be taken away from them the bridegroom," the emphasis being upon the verb, since it comes first. The reference is to the crucifixion. "In those days." The best texts have the singular, "in that day." Expositors says this change from the plural to the singular is very impressive, and is for the purpose of expressing the solemn character of the fact stated. Translation: "But there shall come days of such a character, when there shall be taken away from them the bridegroom, and then they shall fast in that day. NTC-MARKhendriksen100,1,2 - "But days will arrive when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them; then, on that day, they shall fast." This is an early prediction of Christ's death on the cross. The prediction that the bridegroom, Christ, shall be taken away is found also in the parallels (Mt.9:15; Lk.5:35). It strongly reminds one of Isa.53:8, "By opppression and judgment he was taken away." it is remarkable how often in the Gospels Jesus himself quotes from (or at least alludes to passages from) Isaiah. Among the will-known are those found in Mt.11:5 (cf.Isa.35:5,6); Lk.4:18,19 (cf.Isa.61:1,2); and 22:37 (cf.Isa.53:12). In the Gospel according to Mark see also Mark cf. Isaiah 4:12 6:9,10 7:6,7 29:13 11:17 56:7 12:1 5:1,2 13:8 19:2 13:24,25 13:10; 34:4 The present passage (Mk.2:20) is not even the only one containing at least an allusion to Isa. 53. See also Mark 9:12; cf.Isa.53:3; and Mk.15:4,5; cf.Isa.53:7. Isaiah's expression "shall be taken away," and this "by oppression and judgment," refers, of course, to a violent death; note context: "He was oppressed...led to the slaughter...cut off (cf.Dan.9:26) out of the land of the living." It is natural to assume that here in Mark the meaning is similar. With reference to "days will arrive," followed by Mark's very striking "on that day" (contrast Luke's less definite "in those days" and Matthew's complete omission of anything similar), Jesus is saying that his approaching violent death will mean days of mourning for his disciples. Then, at that particular time ("on that day"), fasting as an expression of sorrow would be in order and would occur. That the mourning would not be of long duration is pointed out in Jn.16:16-22. The important truth which Jesus here reveals and which makes the passage so practical and filled with comfort especially also for today is that for those who acknowledge Christ as their Lord and Savior the proper attitude of heart and mind is not that of sadness but that of gladness. If it be true that "God with us" (Immanuel) spells joy for believers, should not "God within us" (the situation on and after Pentecost) awaken in every child of God joy unspeakable and full of glory? It was in order to bring such abounding joy that Jesus came on earth and that he, through his sacrificial death, brought salvation full and free. See Lk.2:10: "good tidings of great joy"; 24:52: "they...returned to Jerusalem with great joy"; Jn.15:11: "that y o u r joy may be full"; 17:13: "that they may have my joy made full in themselves." The apostles learned that lesson (Rom.5:11; 15:13; Gal.5:22; Philippians, the entire epistle; I Peter 1:8; 4:13; I John 1:4; II John 12). By two illustrations taken from daily life Jesus makes clear how inappropriate it would be for the disciples now to be fasting, as if with the coming of Christ a great calamity had descended upon them. The main lesson conveyed is that the new order of things which Jesus by his coming has ushered in, bringing healing to the sick, liberation to the demon-possessed, freedom from care to the care-ridden, cleansing to lepers, food to the hungry, restoration to the handicapped, and above all salvation to those lost in sin, does not fit into the old mold of man-ordained fasting. TNICotNTlane110,11,12 - Jesus is both the center and the cause of the joy that his disciples experience. Yet this condition will not remain undisturbed. Jesus referred to a period when the bridegroom would be taken away and then his disciples would understand the meaning of sorrow. These words have been judged to be alien to the context with its stress on the joy in the bridal celebrations; here, it is urged, the early Church reflects on Jesus' passion. This inference is unwarranted. The language is cryptic in its reference to the bridegroom. Jesus speaks only of a time in which he will be taken away from his friends; there is no definite allusion to a violent death. The inner connection between 2:19a and 2:20 demands only that the phrase "because he is with them" be placed in opposition to "when he shall be taken away." When the primitive Christian community reflected upon this word after Jesus' suffering and death it is natural that they should understand it in the light of that event. But in its original setting the word was veiled and spoke only of a time when joy would be exchanged for sorrow because Jesus would be with them no longer. It is especially important to notice tha the specific formulation which Mark has recorded finds no explicit echo in the passion narrative of his Gospel. The final phrase of Jesus' statement ("and then they will fast on that day") has evoked the attention of interpreters of the Gospel from the earliest period up to the present. Jesus had spoken initially of "the days which are coming" (plural) but now he speaks of "that day" (singular). The veiled character of the phrase is appropriate to the context with its other cryptic elements and scarcely permits an allusion which is precise. A common suggestion is that the reference is to Good Friday, and that the formulation reflects the practice of the Church of Rome which early observed a fast on this occasion. In view of the pervading contrast between joy and sorrow in the developed image it is better to understand "fasting" in the broader sense of experiencing sorrow. MARKj&d74,5 - "Then they will fast in that day." We now live in that day. We look for the coming of the bridegroom for His bride--there are many occasions when we need to fast. The church in Antioch fasted (Cf. Acts 13:1, 2). This is not a legal requirement but it can be a wonderful spiritual exercise. There are mental, emotional, physical and spiritual benefits for the sons of the bride-chamber who will commit themselves to a period of prayer and fasting. The immediate reference here is probably to His crucifixion and the sorrow felt at that time. It can have a more far- reaching application as we have indicated. ??? MARKbarclay52,3,4 - With the stricter Jews fasting was a regular practice. In the Jewish religion there was only one day in all the year that was a compulsory fast, and that was the Day of Atonement. The day when the nation confessed and was forgiven its sin was The Fast, par excellence. But the stricter Jews fasted on two days every week, on Mondays and Thursdays. It is to be noted that fasting was not as serious as it sounds, for the fast lasted from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. and after that normal food could be eaten. It is to be noted that Jesus is not against fasting as such. There are very good reasons why a man might fast. He might deny himself the things he liked for his comfort for the sake of discipline, to be certain that he was the master of them and not they of him, to make sure that he never grew to love them so well that he could not give them up. He might deny himself his comforts and his pleasant thing that, after self-denial, he might appreciate them all the more. One of the best ways to learn to value our homes is to have to stay away from home for a time; and one of the best ways to appreciate God's gifts is to do without them for a time. These are good reasons for fasting. The trouble about the Pharisees was that in far too many cases their fasting was for self-display. It was to call the attention of men to their own goodness. They actually whitened their faces and went about with disshevelled garments on their fast days so that no one could miss the fact that they were fasting and so that everyone would see and admire their devotion. It was to call the attention of God to their piety. They felt that this special act of extra piety would bring them to the notice of God. Their fasting was a ritual and a self- displaying ritual at that. To be of any value, fasting must not be the result of a ritual; it must be the expression of a feeling in the heart. it must not be a mere convention, but a genuine way of expressing a need of the heart. Jesus uses a vivid picture to tell the Pharisees why His disciples did not fast. After a Jewish wedding the couple did not go away for a honeymoon; they stayed at home. For a week or so open house was kept and there was continual feasting and rejoicing. In a hard wrought life the wedding week was the happiest week in a man's life. To that week of happiness there were invited the closest friends of the bride and the bridegroom; and they were called by the name children of the bridechamber. Jesus likens his little company to men who were children of the bridechamber, chosen guests at a wedding feast. There was actually a rabbinic ruling which said, "All in attendance on the bridegroom are relieved of all religious observances which would lessen their joy." The wedding guests were actually exempt from all fasting. This incident tells us that the characteristic Christian attitude to life is joy. The discovery of Christ and the company of Christ is the key to happiness. There was a Japanese criminal called Tockichi Ishii. He was utterly and bestially pitiless; he had brutally and callously murdered men, women and children in his career of crime. He was captured and imprisoned. Two Canadian ladies visited the prison. He could not be induced even to speak; he only glowered at them with the face of a wild beast. When they left, they left with him a copy of the Bible in the faint hope that he might read it. He read it, and the story of the Crucifixion made him a changed man. "Later when the jailer came to lead the doomed man to the scaffold, he found not the surly, hardened brute he expected, but a smiling, radiant man, for Ishii the murderer had been born again." The mark of his rebirth was a smiling radiance. The life that is lived in Christ cannot be lived other than in joy. But the story ends with the foreboding cloud across the sky. No doubt when Jesus spoke of the day when the bridegroom would be taken away His friends did not at the moment see the meaning of it. But here, right at the beginning, Jesus saw the Cross ahead. Death did not take Jesus unawares; even now He had counted the cost and chosen the way. Here is courage; here is the picture of a man who would not be deflected from the road at whose end there loomed the inevitable Cross. TCGTC-MARKcranfield110,11 - aparthA. The simple verb airw is used twice in Isa.53:8 (LXX), for lakah (R.V.: 'take away') and gazar (R.V.: 'cut off'). It seems likely that this verse is echoed here and that Jesus is applying (or else is represented as applying) something said of the Servant in Isa.53 to himself. Certainly, if that is so, and most probably even if it is not, there is here a reference to a violent death. By many scholars v.19b-20 are held to be the creation of the early Chruch. It is urged that (i) they reflect the tendency to turn parable into allegory; (ii) they involve a prediction of the Passion at too early a stage in the ministry to be probable and are to be explained as a prophecy after the event; (iii) the attitude to fasting reflected in v.20 is inconsistent with that in v.19a, and v.19b-20 are an addition by the community to justify its own custom of fasting. But if may be pointed out in reply to (i) that to insist that anything with a hint of allegory must be unauthentic is much too doctrinaire ... , and that anyway it seems likely, as we have already seen, that v.19a itself is not free from allegory; and to (ii) that this incident is not dated and many well belong to a later stage in the ministry than its place in Mk might suggest, and that anyway, if our understanding of the Baptism was right, Jesus saw his mission as that of the Suffering Servant from the very beginning of his ministry; and to (iii) that v.19a does not rule out fasting in all circumstances but only during Jesus' presence with his disciples; and that, as we have no definite evidence of any custom of regular fasting in the Church before post-apostolic times, the assumption that we have here a construction of the early Church is highly doubtful. Taylor further appeals to the poetic structure of the two verses (the parallelism between v.19a and v.19b, and the contrast between v.19a and v.20a and between v.19b and v.20b) as evidence in support of authenticity. We take it then that this section contains the first hint of the Passion on the lips of Jesus in Mk. What has happened to the forerunner will be repeated in the case of him who comes after him. When that happens, the disciples will have good reason to fast and mourn. Mark 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth; No man seweth a piece of undressed cloth--ASV; No one sews a piece of unfulled cloth--ABUV; No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth--NEB; ...of brand-new goods--Wms; on an old garment:; on an old coat--Gspd; on a worn out garment--Lam; else the new piece that filleth it up taketh away from the old,; else that which should fi8ll it up taketh from it, the new from the old--ASV; if he does, the patch tears away from it, the new from the old--RSV; and the rent is made worse.; and a worse rent is made--ASV; and a worse tear...--RSV; and leaves a bigger hole--NEB; //No one\\ seweth /a patch of unshrunk cloth\ upon /an old' mantle\,--//otherwise, at least\\ the shrinking teareth away from it--the new from the old--and /a worse' rent is made\. 'And no one a patch of undressed cloth doth sew on an old garment, and if not--the new filling it up doth take from the old and the rent doth become worse; oudeis epiblAma hrakous agnaphou epiraptei epi himation palaion, ei de mA, airei to plArwma ap' autou to kainon tou palaiou, kai cheiron schisma ginetai. oudeis (nom.sing.masc.of oudeis, subject of epiraptei). epiblAma (acc.sing.neut.of epiblAja, direct object of epiraptei). hrakous (gen.sing.neut.of hrakos, definition). agnaphou (gen.sing.neut.of agnaphos, in agreement with hrakous). epiraptei (3d.per.sing.pres.act.ind.of epirraptw, customary). sew on - Here. Meaning: A combination of epi and hraptw - "to sew." Hence, "to sew on. To patch." Parabolically here. epi (preposition with the accusative of extent). himation (acc.sing.neut.of himation, extent). palaion (acc.sing.neut.of palaios, in agreement with himation). ei (conditional particle introducing a first-class condition). de (adversative conjunction). mA (negative conjunction with the indicative). airei (3d.per.sing.pres.act.ind.of airw, first-class condition). to (nom.sing.neut.of the article in agreement with plArwma). plArwma (nom.sing.neut.of plArwma, subject of airei). ap' (preposition with the ablative, separation). autou (abl.sing.masc.of autos, separation). to (nom.sing.neut.of the article in agreement with kainon). kainon (nom.sing.masc.of kainos, in agreement with plArwma). tou (abl.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with palaiou). palaiou (abl.sing.masc.of palaios, separation). kai (continuative conjunction). cheiron (nom.sing.neut.of cheirwn, predicate adjective in agreement with schisma). schisma (nom.sing.neut.of schisma, subject of ginetai). ginetai (3d.per.sing.pres.ind.of ginomai, aoristic). Translation: "But nobody sews a piece of new cloth upon an old garment, lest the new piece will tear out from the old, and the tear becomes worse." COMMENT: Cf.Mt.9:16; Lk.5:36 for comment. Jesus means that the old garment of Judaism, which the disciples of John and the Pharisees were wearing, the conventions of which they were seeking to impose upon Jesus and His disciples, cannot be patched and made serviceable by imposing upon it new ideas which are foreign to it. The critics of vs.18 were suggesting that the new philosophy of Jesus and His disciples ought to be governed in its behavior by the old standards. Jesus, the only truly constructive revolutionary of all history, (Lk.1:51-53) was upsetting the philosophy and ethics of the status quo, as He always does. When will the social scientists of this age come to understand that reform, the process of patching the old garment with new material, does not provide a viable society? We do not need reform. We need revolution. The old garment is hopelessly worn out. The imperfections in it are not subject to remedial patching. We must wait until it is destroyed and replaced with a totally new, because different garment. This is not to say, however, that it is the task of the human society to throw away the old garment, since, once it is rejected, we have not the ability to replace it with one better. The French Revolution destroyed the power of the Bourbons to rule France, but the revolutionaries were unable to replace it with something better. Marx taught the Communists to destroy capitalism in some selected areas of the globe, but Lenin was unable to replace it with a more viable system. Only King Messiah can do that, because He is the only One Who can do something constructive about the problem of evil. This He will do when He returns at the end of the age. Meanwhile, we patch and patch and patch! R1025 - Ei de mA has the sense of "but if not" or "otherwise' (cf. Jn.14:11). T209 - The partitive genitive with apo here has the sense of "some of it" (the best reading from a syntax point of view is airei ap' autou ["some of it"] to plArwma to kainon ["the new fulness"] apo tou palaiou ["namely, some of the old"]). [Ed. The correct text appears to be airei ap' autou to plArwma to kainon tou palaiou supported by A, K, Delta and certain Syriac miniscules, which was slightly rearragned to conform to the text in Mt.9:16. This clause should then be rendered "the new patch of the old (garment) breaks away from it."] DM247 - ei. Its regular meanings are if (when it introduces conditions) and whether (when it introduces indirect questions). It is found, with only a few exceptions, with the indicative, and implies that there is likelihood that the assumption will be fulfilled, or that there is no hope of fulfillment, as in contrary to fact conditions. ... The similar expression ei de mA (here) means otherwise. ... Ear118 - Piece. The Greek word is epiblAma. It comes from the verb epiballw, which means "lay on" or "put on." So the noun, used in this parabolic saying in all three Synoptics (see Mt.9:16; Lk.5:36), clearly means a "patch" (RSV, NASB, NIV). Ear118 - New. The Greek word is agnaphos, which means "unbleached" or "unshrunk." Both it and the word for "cloth" (hrakos) are found (in NT) only here and in the parallel passage in Mt.9:16. "Unshrunk cloth" is the correct translation (RSV, NASB, NIV). MARKitGNTwuest57 - "A piece of new cloth on an old garment." "Piece" is epiblAma from epiballw "to throw upon," hence a patch, that which is imposed upon a rent in a piece of cloth to mend it. "New" is agnaphos, "unfulled, unmilled, undressed." It refers to the fuller's trade in which a new piece of cloth is made usable by a porcess of cleansing, shrinking, and thickening, through the use of moisture, heat, and pressure. The point is that unfulled cloth would shrink when used to patch fulled cloth, and thus tear away from the latter. "Old" is not from archaios, "old in point of time," but from palaios "old in point of use, worn-out." The worn-out garment, weakened by use and age, would not furnish the unfulled patch with enough of a grip to keep both together. The patch refers to the Messiah's new type of ministry and preaching, grace, as compared to the Mosaic law, the old worn-out garment which was ready to be set aside. We must be careful not to drive every detail of this parable to the wall. No parable walks on all fours, but will limp somewhere if the expositor seeks to explain every detail. No illustration using material objects to explain spiritual truth, is able to perfectly comprehend the latter, and for the reason that the material and the spiritual occupy two different spheres. There are those today who attempt to retain the Mosaic law which God set aside at the Cross, and put upon it the patch of grace. It happens as our Lord said, "The new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse." When the attempt is made to mix law and grace, both lose their true identity and you have the doctrines of the Judaizers in the Galatian heresy. Translation: "No one sews a patch consisting of unfulled cloth upon a worn-out garment. Otherwise that which fills it up takes away from it, the new from the worn-out, and the rent becomes worse. NTC-MARKhendriksen102 - "No one sews [82] a patch, [83] made of a piece of new [84] cloth, [85] on an old garment; otherwise the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear results." If a patch of unfulled wool or undressed cloth is placed on a garment that has seen better days, the result will be that, especially when this unshrunk piece becomes wet and shrinks, the bordering cloth of the badly worn piece of clothing will be pulled to pieces. "The new--strong, fresh--will pull away from the old," says Mark, and a worse rent results. The patch that was supposed to sove a problem creates a bigger problem. [footnote 82] - Mark writes eperaptei, "sews on," where Matthew and Luke have "puts on." Mark's word basically means to stitch on. Cf. "rhapsodist," one who strings or stitches songs together, a reciter of epic poetry. [footnote 83] - In Greek the word epiblAma, something put on, hence, "patch," could also have the meaning bedspread, coat, robe, bandage, etc. For "robe" see Isa.3:22 LXX. [footnote 84] - The basic verb is knaptw, to card or comb wool, to full or dress cloth. Hence agnaphos (here agnaphou, gen.sing.) means: not fulled, unsized, hence "new." [footnote 85] - The word hrakos (here hrakous, gen.sing.) indicates a piece of cloth. At times it refers to a "rag," (cf. Jer.38:11 = LXX 45:11), but the sound similarity between the Greek and the English word is purely accidental, has no etymological significance. MARKj&d75 - "...a piece of undressed cloth or an old garment." This is an answer to question about fasting. Jesus is saying His mission is entirely new. It will not be added to that of the law as reflected so poorly through the Pharisees, nor even a part of the work of John--which was only a preparation for the new kingdom. The Messiah was not sent to patch up the old but to offer an entirely new garment. "The garment of praise for the worn-out garment of law." TCGTC-MARKcranfield112 - himation denotes the outer garment (as opposed to chitwn, the under garment). Mark 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles:; ...wine-skins-- ASV; And no one pours new wine into old skins--Rieu; else the wine will burst the skins--ASV; if he does, the wine will burst the skins--RSV; and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred:; and the wine perisheth, and the skins--ASV; and the wine is lost, and so are the skins--RSV; and both the wine and skins are lost--Wey; the wine is spilt and the skins are ruined--Phi; but new wine must be put into new bottles.; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins-- ASV; New wine has to be put into fresh skins--Gspd; And //no one\\ poureth /new wine\ into /old skins\,--//otherwise, at least\\ the wine will burst the skins, and /the wine\ is lost, and //the skins\\. [But /new wine\ is for /unused skins\.] and no one doth put new wine into old skins, and if not--the new wine doth burst the skins, and the wine is poured out, and the skins will be destroyed; but new wine into new skins is to be put.' TRNTyeager649,50 - kai oudeis ballei oinon neon eis askous palaious - ei de mA, hrAxei ho oinos tous askous, kai ho oinos apollutai kai hoi askoi - alla oinon neon eis askous kainous. kai (continuative conjunction). oudeis (nom.sing.masc.of oudeis, subject of ballei). ballei (3d.per.sing.pres.act.ind.of ballw, customary). oinon (acc.sing.masc.of oinos, direct object of ballei). neon (acc.sing.masc.of oinos, direct object of ballei). eis (preposition with the accusative of extent). askous (acc.pl.masc.of askos, extent). palaious (acc.pl.masc.of palaios, in agreement with askous). ei (conditional particle introducing a first class condition). de (adversative conjunction). mA (negative conjunction with the indicative). hrAxei (3d.per.sing.fut.act.ind.of hrAgnumi, predictive). ho (nom.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with oinos). oinos (nom.sing.masc.of oinos, subject of hrAxei). tous (acc.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with askous). askous (acc.pl.masc.of askos, direct object of hrAxei). kai (continuative conjunction). ho (nom.sing.masc.of the article in agreement with oinos). oinos (nom.sing.masc.of oinos, subject of apollutai). apollutai (3d.per.sing.pres.pass.ind.of apollumi, futuristic). kai (adjunctive conjunction, joining nouns). hoi (nom.pl.masc.of the article in agreement with askoi). askoi (nom.pl.masc.of askos, subject of apollutai). alla (alternative conjunction). oinon (acc.sing.masc.of oinos, direct object of the verb understood). neon (acc.sing.masc.of neos, in agreement with oinon). eis (preposition with the accusative of extent). askous (acc.pl.masc.of askos, extent). kainous (acc.pl.masc.of kainos, in agreement with askous). Translation: "Similarly, nobody pours new wine into old wineskins - but if they should, the wine would burst the wineskins and the wine and the skins would be destroyed. But new wine (should be poured) into new wineskins." COMMENT: kai is continuative here as Jesus goes on to suggest another analogy which teaches the same point. Cf.#809 and 812 for difference in meaning. In this passage neon, as an adjective joined with oinon, means fresh fruit juice not as yet subject to fermentation and hence possessed with an explosive quality which would be fatal to the strength of an old container. Note that apollutai serves as verb for both ho oinos and hoi askoi. Note also that the clause alla...kainous has no verb, but we supply balletai. Cf.Mt.9:17 for comment. The Bible exegete is dismayed at society's attempt to change the gospel of Christ to fit the social norm, rather than changing the social norm to fit the Word of God. When the new wine of the ethics of the gospel of Christ is poured into the old bottles which society has prepared, both the gospel and society are destroyed. Wine that remains comfortably in the old wineskins is thereby demonstrated to be old wine, which has long since lost its explosive power to change. Churches and preachers who make a fetish out of getting along with society indicate that they have nothing new to offer. The gospel of Christ demands (indeed it must have) change. The new wineskins which are indispensable, if we are to save the wine, must be constructed on the same ethical and spiritual patterns as those demanded by the wine itself. This is why Jesus said that His coming would serve, not to bring peace, but the sword that would pour the new wine of regeneration in the life of one memeber of a family into the old bottle of familial relationships, with the destructive social results. Cf.Mt.10:34-36; I Cor.7:12-15. DM247 - ei. Its regular meanings are if (when it introduces conditions) and whether (when it introduces indirect questions). It is found, with only a few exceptions, with the indicative, and implies that there is likelihood that the assumption will be fulfilled, or that there is no hope of fulfillment, as in contrary to fact conditions. ... The similar expression ei de mA (here) means otherwise. ... Ear119 - Bottles. Today "bottles" refers to glass or plastic containers, which the common people did not use in the time of Christ. The Greek word here is askos, which means "a leather bag, especially wine-skin" (AG). Ear119 - New. In this verse two different Greek words are used for "new." The first word, used with "wine," is neos, from which we get our word "new." The second, used at the end with "wineskins," is kainos. R.C.Trench distinguishes between these two words as follows: "Contemplate the new under aspects of time, as that which has recently come into existence, and this is neos... But contemplate the new, not now under aspects of time, but of quality, the new, as set over against that which has seen service, the outworn, the effete or marred through age, and this is kainos" (Synonyms of the NT, pp.219-20). When grape juice ("new wine") is placed in a wineskin, it soon begins to ferment. But the new leather wineskin will stretch as the volume of the fermenting wine increases. If, on the other hand, fresh grape juice is put into a used wineskin which has already stretched, the fermentation will cause the skin to burst, and both wine and wineskin will be lost. The best translation at the end of the verse is "fresh wineskins" (NASB). MARKitGNTwuest57,8 - "Old bottles." The latter word brings to one's mind the idea of glass bottles. The Greek word is "wineskins." These were made of the skins of animals. In the case of glass containers of wine, the corks would come out and the bottles would not burst. But it is easy to see that containers made of animal skins could easily burst under the pressure of newly-fermenting wine. It is important to adequately translate the word here, lest a thoughtful Bible student run up against a difficulty. "Old" is again palaios, referring to worn-out wineskins. "New wine, new bottles." Two different words for "new" are used. In the case of "wine" the word is neos, which means "new in point of time." In the case of "bottles," it is kainos, which means "new in point of use," this latter set over against palaios, "old in point of use, worn-out." The word "spilled" is not in the best manuscripts. The Greek word apollumi is construed both with "wine" and "bottles." It means "to destroy, to render useless." The same teaching is found in this parable as in the previous one, the commingling of the new with the old, which renders both useless. Translation: "And no one puts newly-made wine into worn-out wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the wineskins, and both the wine and the wine-skins are destroyed. But newly-made wine is put into wineskins which are just beginning to be used. NTC-MARKhendriksen102 - ... What Jesus means is that the salvation which he was bringing was out of line with joyless fastings. Old wineskins are no match for new, still fermenting, wine. Such wine would burst the skins, resulting in the loss of both skins and wine. Similarly the new wine of rescue and riches for all who are willing to accept these blessings, even for publicans and sinners, must be poured into new, that is, fresh, strong wineskins of gratitude, freedom, and spontaneous service to the glory of God. TNICotNTlane112,3 - The twin parables appended to Jesus' initial statements may have been delivered on some other occasion. They possess a relevance which is broader than the narrow issue of fasting, and Mark makes no attempt to link them narrowly to the preceding verses. Their appropriateness to the issue at hand lies in the commentary they provide on the significance of Jesus' presence with his disciples. These brief parables directly answer the challenge implied in the question, Why do your disciples not fast? Like the bridal metaphor, the sayings about the new garment and the new wine describe inappropriate actions (using valuable new cloth to mend a tattered garment; pouring jermenting new wine into worn-out damaged wineskins). In this context the meaning of these sayings is quite specific. If Jesus' disciples were to pursue the Pharisaic practice or continue to emulate the Baptist, they would be like people who put a new piece of cloth on an old garment, or who pour new wine into old skins. The practice of John's disciples was oriented to preparation for the coming of the Kingdom, especially in its aspect of judgment. That is why they fast. Jesus, on the other hand, came proclaiming that the time was fulfilled, and it is his presence which is the decisive element of fulfilment. The behavior of his disciples reflects the joyful certainty of the breaking in of the time of salvation. They experience the joy of the Kingdom because they belong to him. The time of the bridegroom signals the passing of the old and the coming of "the new." Here "new" means that which is totally different; it is a characteristic which belongs to the final age. The new disrupts the old and bursts its mold. That is why maintaining what is old (fasting as an expression of repentance in preparation for the judgment to come) represents a misunderstanding and a basic ignorance that the time of salvation has already come with Jesus. The Pharisaic practice of fasting perpetuated the old in an unbelieving mechanical fashion blind to the new moment which God had introduced. The presence of Jesus inaugurates the messianic time of joy when fasting is rendered superfluous, so long as he is in the midst of his people. The images of the wedding, the new cloth and the new wine are distinctly eschatological in character, like that of the messianic banquet in 2:15-17. it may be this factor which has caused them to be closely associated by the evangelist. They stress the element of fulfilment which is marked by the presence of Jesus. His person is both the sign that the old situation has been radically altered and the pledge that the reality described by these images shall be experienced in the appropriate time. MARKj&d75 - "New wine in old wine-skins"--This is a Hebrewistic manner of presenting parables--two with the same point for emphasis. "The point in the use of the 'parables' is that the using of the ill-chosen patch and the unsuitable bottles defeats the purpose of him who resorts to it, and the purpose is defeated because of an unwise uniting of the new with the old. The new is the living, expanding, divinely- vigorous kingdom of Christ; the old is that which pertains to the Jewish dispensation, which was decaying and ready to vanish away (Heb.8:13)" (W.N.Clarke) MARKbarclay54,5,6 - Jesus knew quite well that He was coming with a message which was startlingly new; and He also knew that His conduct and His way of life was shatteringly different from that of the orthodox rabbinic teacher. He also knew how difficult it is for the minds of men to accept and to entertain new truth; and here He uses two illustrations to show how difficult and how necessary it is to have an ad- venturous mind. No one ever had such a gift as Jesus had for the dis- covery and the use of homely illustrations. Over and over again He finds in the simple things jpathways and pointers to God. No one was ever such an expert in getting from "the here and now" to the "there and then." For Jesus "earth was crammed with heaven." He lived so close to God that everything spoke to Him of God. Someone tells how, on Satur- day afternoons, he used to go for country walks with one of the most famous of Scottish preachers. They used to have long talks together. Telling of it afterwards he said, "Wherever the conversation started, he had a way of cutting straight across country to God." Whereever Jesus' eye lighted it had a way of flashing straight on to God. (i) He speaks of the danger of sewing a new patch on an old garment. The word that is used means that the new cloth was still undressed; it had never been shrunk; so when the garment got wet in the rain the new patch shrunk, and being much stronger than the old, it tore the old apart. There comes a time when the day of patching is ended. Patching is no more effective and re-creating must begin. In the time of Luther it was not possible to patch up the abuses of the Ro- man Catholic Church; the time for patching was done and the time for reformation had come. In the time of John Wesley, for Wesley at least, the time for patching the Church of England was done. He did not want to leave it, but in the end he had to, for only a new fellowship would suffice. It may well be that there are times when we try to patch and mend and adjust, when what is wanted is the complete abandonment of the old and the acceptance of something new altogether. (ii) In Palestine wine was kept in wineskins. At that time there was no such thing as a bottle in our sense of the term. When these skins were new they had a certain elasticity; as they grew old they became hard and unyielding. New wine is still fermenting; it gives off gases. These gases cause pressure; and if the skin is new it will yield to the pressure, but if it is old and hard and dry it will explode and wine and skin alike will be lost. Jesus is pleading for a certain elasticity in our minds. It is fatally easy to become set in our way. J.A.Findlay quotes a saying of one of his friends--"When you reach a conclusion you're dead." What he meant was that when our minds become fixed and settled in their ways, when they are quite unable to accept new truth and to contemplate new ways, we may be physically alive but we are mentally dead. As people grow older almost everyone develops a constitutional dislike of that which is new and unfamiliar. We grow very unwilling to make any adjustments in our habits and ways of life. Lesslie Newbigin, who was involved in the discussions about the for- mation of the United Chruch of South India, tells how, dur- ing these discussions, one of the things that most often held things up was that people would keep asking, "Now, if we do that, just where are we going?" In the end someone had to say bluntly, "The Christian has no right to ask where he is going." Abraham went out not knowing whither he went. (Heb.11:8). There is a great verse in that same chapter of Hebrews: "By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff." (Heb.11:21). With the very breath of death upon him the old traveller still had his pilgrim staff in his hand. To the end of the day, with the evening now upon him, he was still ready for the road. If we are really to rise to the height of the Christian challenge, we must retain the adventurous mind. I received a letter once which ended, with the inexhaustible riches of Christ still before us, why not? TCGTC-MARKcranfield112,3 - alla oinon neon eis askous kainous is omitted by D it, and W.H. and Nestle enclose it in square brackets; but it could easily have been omitted accidentally in D ... It seems to be presupposed by Mt. and Lk. The accusative oinon neon is to be explaines as the object of ballei, the words ei de mA...hoi askoi being in a way parenthetic. But Taylor points out that the words in question spoil the parallelism between the two parables, there being nothing in v.21 to correspond with them. it is possible, as he says, that the words, though par tof the original text of Mk, are not an original part of the parable but an exegetical addition. It is, however, perhaps also possible that Jesus himself purposely went beyond the limit of the poetic form he was using in order to sum up positively and emphatically the burden of the pair of parables. That directly or indirectly, in one way or another, these twin parables bear on the newness of that which has come into the world with Jesus is fairly certain; but about their exact original application we cannot be sure. Were they a defence of the disciples against those who, failing to recognize this newness, wanted to confine them within the strait jacket of contemporary pious conventions; or a reference to the incompatibility of John's disciples' use of pious practices of Pharisaic pattern with their recognition of the new situation indicated by their insistence on repentance? Or is the point that the kingdom of God cannot be confined within the limits of Judaism, and the coming of the new must bring with it the dissolution of the old? Or did these parables drive hime the need for rebirth (cf. jn.3:3, and perhaps Mk.10:15) - the impossibility of receiving the new apart from a miracle of new creation ... or the uselessness of half measures, of trying to mend one's old life with a patch of new?